Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
  This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
Minas Tirith Forums » Fantasy Games » Proper fighting (re-enactment) (Page 5)
Author Topic: Proper fighting (re-enactment)
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Thought I'd post a link to a photo of the latest re-enactment project I finished. I made myself some turnshoes based on a pair found in a grave dating to the 10th century in York, England.

Oh, and ignore the socks. I didn't feel like putting on my wool trousers or hose just to take a photo. []

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/albrecht/shoes.jpg

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3302
posted      Profile for Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   Author's Homepage   Email Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Looks very nice! How long did it take you?
From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well...it took me a year ( [] ) , but that's because I worked on them for a while, then stuck them in a closet and didn't pull them out until months later.

If I would have just worked on them for an hour or two every day, I think I could have built them in about a week, maybe two.

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3302
posted      Profile for Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   Author's Homepage   Email Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Was it difficult? I mean, they're not the most complicated shoes, but I assume it still took some skill?
From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I'll break my answers to that question into a few areas.

Materials: I used 6 oz. vegetable-tanned leather for these shoes. The thread used for construction is waxed linen thread, which I got from a leather supply store along with an awl and appropriate needles. For finishing touches, I used some wool thread I had lying around and neatsfoot oil to condition and waterproof the leather (mink or other oils also work).

Pattern: I had an experienced medieval shoe-maker help me with the pattern and sizing, but you can find good patterns online in various places (see below). You can just take these patterns and size them until your foot fits comfortably in the sole, with a bit of extra space around the edge (maybe 1/2-1 cm).

Construction: There's a certain style of stitch to use when sewing the sole to the upper, and another style of stitch to sew the uppers together (at the back and near the instep in the pattern I used, but this can vary). These stitches took some practice, but weren't that difficult once I got started. It gets a bit tricky because you sew these shoes together inside out, then wet them down and turn them right side out when you're finished. That took some doing, and at times I felt like I was in a wrestling match, but it wasn't that bad. The benefit of the particular stitches you use and sewing the shoes together inside out is that the thread ends up inside the shoe when they're done, and that they last longer (the thread would get quickly worn and break if it was outside the shoe). Once they were dry and right side out, I oiled them, then let the oil dry. The sewing around the top is just decorative; I used the wool thread for this.

There's a wealth of information on making medieval shoes at this website: Footwear of the Middle Ages. Marc (who runs the site) really knows his stuff, and he's also kind enough to help you with questions if you email him.

[ 03-12-2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Éoric of the Riddermark ]

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3302
posted      Profile for Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   Author's Homepage   Email Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
So here's a question for all those with metal equipment:

How do I best preserve my helmet?


I have tried to keep it away from moisture and skin, but still it has some brownish spots that, given time, will corrode.

From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings!

Let me preface this post by saying that I prefer a russet finish on my armour.

However, I have a few helmets that need to remain bright during storage and display.

The best rust-prevention is a high polish, as bright a mirror finish as you can achieve. This is the only way to really protect "white" armour.

After a clean polish, apply a specialty wax. There are many microcrystaline museum waxes for sale, which are fairly inexpensive.
I have also heard of turtle wax and car-polish, but many of these products will unduly "gum" and accumulate on your armour.

The next best means of rust-prevention is constant maintenance.
Every time you handle the item, give it a wipe-down to remove oils and other debris. Then, give it a light polish with a very, very fine bit of sanding cloth (emery) or wet/dry sandpaper (1600 grit maybe?). Very fine steel wool will also work.

After dressing the helm, give it a light coat of clear oil - sewing machine oil is good. Wife off any excess, and store.


By the way, I've been doing hours and hours (3+ at a time) of swordplay this summer. I'm waiting for a new longsword to arrive so that I can begin some lightly armoured combat. Up to this point its been all rapier/dagger, broadsword and shield, spear/polarm, axe, and staff.

Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Belegurth
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1534

posted      Profile for Belegurth   Email Belegurth   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
May I disturb this fine gathering?

I am highly interested in swordplay, but due to classes I had while the lessons at my Uni in Dao-Sword-teaching took place I did not yet come to it. I realize that Japanese Swordfight might be much more bound to rules and stricter sequencing than the swordplay you carry out. Thus my question, where does the emphasis of this "western" swordplay lay? In swift sequences of studied movements and counter-movements, or rather intuition combined with an excellent eye-hand coordination? Are there differences at all?

If I make no sense whatsoever, I'd be glad to re-formulate my question.

From: the void | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Good morning, Belegurth!
It is unfortunate that your lesson had to be post-poned.
But never fear!
You can begin your lessons without an instructor.
Simply acquire the tool of your choice and begin to hold it, and to learn its weight, its movement, and its limitations.

Like the Eastern arts, western martial arts are based on breath and positioning. Spanish schools taught a mystic style of swordplay, la Destreza, which focused on the "circle" as vigorously as, say, Aikido or Tai Chi.

Sadly, Western swordplay has been denigrated over the decades. All of European swordplay (barring only the comic and improbable show of rapier stage-fights) has been lumped into a frat-party, wild-swinging, American bad-*ss category. In the case of German swordsmanship [] , these critics do have a point! The Germans of the last four hundred years are renowned for sparring with [characteristically heavy] swords for a little while, but then dispatching with the blades in favor of grappling and physical combat.

In the West, we have enough bloom iron to create a lot of weaponry. Our steel is better by default, and so our style of swordplay is liberal with blade contact. If a blade does break, we'll make another.

Thus, the western swordsman will use the flat of the blade to move his or her opponent's blade past his/her body. The eastern swordsman will tend to avoid blade-contact, usually in favor of a single stroke or a series of killing strokes.

This is all fine and well if you can avoid the opponent's blade.


We have all wondered this:
if a Samurai and a Rapiersman were to duel, who would win?

First, it's not a fair question because it's not a fair match.

Katana and tachi, on average, are short (29 inch blade, maybe 40 inches overall). There were larger swords, such as no-tachi, but these were uncommon and not suited to the standard Asian body-height.

A rapier begins its length at 43 inches. An average rapier is 46 inches. These extra six inches of reach are also the only inches of the rapier that are sharpened. This last third of the blade is called the "foible" because it is "feeble" and flexible. This acts like a fast-moving slashing/tearing steel thorn.

Nextly, the rapier kills upon the point. It has virtually no edge. The wild saber strokes seen on television are appropriate only to the saber - not the rapier. When the French employ the rapier, they arrange the hand palm-up so that the sword-cage is constantly in the way of the opponent's stroke. It is literally "fencing": like unto fighting behind a tree or a fence; using the sword as a sublime and invisible barrier.

Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Belegurth
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1534

posted      Profile for Belegurth   Email Belegurth   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Imbëar.


I am looking forward to take lessons, and I will try to achieve some skill before, as you suggested.

The difference between eastern and western fighting techniques can be observed in other fields of martial arts as well, I think. This semester I had the luck to attend a beginners-class of Shaolin Kempo (my schedule allowed at least for one lesson/week), with a test following in 9 days - with what outcome I cannot guess. []
Anyway, it is my experience that those eastern arts are rather made to keep the enemy at distance, avoiding being hit by moving swiftly aside and blocking attacks only if necessary, and preparing to impair the enemies movenment by concentrating one's attacks on crucial parts such as kneecaps, the solarplexus and, of course, the face. I do not wish to over-generalize, but in western arts I assume more body-contact can be found, such as blocking an enemies strike with the blade, or close contact in boxing.

Of course, one can easily refute my thoughts when mentioning the arts of Sumo-fighting.

Both systems have their advantages, and I'm eager to look into new worlds and perspectives. Thanks again!

From: the void | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Sauron's Secret Agent
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1891

posted      Profile for Sauron's Secret Agent   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
*ventures in nervously*

Er: I come in peace! I do not bear arms.

*waves white hanky*

[] Could I ask you guys for help please? On how to restore a sword?

I have a sword, presumably a regimental dress sword, which was 'acquired' years ago by the ex. I found it a few months ago, and as the ex doesn't want it, it's mine. The poor thing is very rusty, and I'm not sure whether the hilt is meant to be black or metal colour.

Boromir suggested getting the rust clear with Coke, and most of it has come off, but not all. Under the rust, the blade is black, although there are occasional splashes of metal colour. To finger-touch, it doesn't seem to be pitted.

Can anyone tell me what to do next to make it look nice please? (And any suggestions as to what it should look like?) For one thing, it's a beautiful object and it's awful to see it in this state. For another, I am making a medieval-Gothic-style room, and would like to hang it in there.

Any help will very gratefully accepted. Thank you!

Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Sword restoration, hm?

What kind of a sword is it?
How is it constructed?
What is the blade shape? Does it have grooves?

The black marks you are describing (beneath the rust) are deep stains in the metal. Often, only by removing the metal can you open the affected area.

Most importantly, you need to remove any overt corrosion or rust, repolish the blade, and then keep it relatively dry and oiled/protected.

Steel wool, emery cloth, and wet/dry fine-grit paper (1600 grit and down) is what you will need. Work evenly and slowly. You can use vinegar to lightly oxidize the metal, which can help with the initial stages of cleaning. But, if the vinegar is left on the metal, it will continue to oxidize and etch the metal.

Post pictures!

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Sauron's Secret Agent
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1891

posted      Profile for Sauron's Secret Agent   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Help! You've gone technical on me!

It's just this sword that got left with me, you know. And I want to save it from extinction.

Okay, tomorrow I will take pics and post them. But I have no idea about its composition, or anything else about it. Sorry. I am totally ignorant about swords - it's just so lovely, it seems a shame to let it die.

Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I look forward to seeing the pics, SSA. I hope you can get it cleaned up. It's a shame for something as elegant as a sword to be in poor shape, and I have just found an old (18th century?) bayonet/sword that I'm trying to restore as well.

BTW, I posted this in a thread in the Pony, but this is probably a better place for it:

 -

This is a photo of me geared up for a recent filming session. The footage is to be used in a documentary which is scheduled to air sometime in November on The History Channel. The series is called Command Decisions, and this episode will focus on the Battle of Hastings. Any comments are welcome, including ideas for bettering my kit!

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Sauron's Secret Agent
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1891

posted      Profile for Sauron's Secret Agent   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
That is a very impressive outfit!

We went to a medieval tournament last week. At our Robin Hood Festival. The attention to detail was amazing - it must be such fun to do. And the audience loved it!

My sword. I don't know if it's anything special - it just came my way. But it has its own beauty and if it can be saved, it will be. I'll post pics tomorrow - life permitting. []

Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Technical?!? []

Okay, even without pictures, I know that you'll need some strong cleaning agent - like vinegar, acid, or brake cleaner - and some scouring pads (scotchbrite, 3M make a heavy-duty sanding pad at your local Hardward Store).

You start by soaking any of the corrosive debris, and then removing it by "knocking it off" as opposed to scrubbing or scraping. Once the majority of the accumulated rust is removed, then you start working with a fine-grit wet/dry sandpaper.
During the final stages of cleaning, you can use oil with your sandpaper to do a sort of wet polish. Expect a big black mess.
And keep things wet to keep the dust down - it's bad to breathe, of course []

I look forward to the pictures!

Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Sauron's Secret Agent
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1891

posted      Profile for Sauron's Secret Agent   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I tried taking photos of the sword, but frankly I can't find any that do it justice - either its beauty, or its awful current state. It just doesn't show up in photos.

Sorry.

Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Can you provide a link to a picture of a similar sword?

More than likely, the rust-removal and polishing methods will be the same for your sword as for others.

Sometimes a sword has special grooves or etchings in the blade which require a slightly different approach to cleaning.

Is the blade straight or curved?
Is the handle brass?

Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Sauron's Secret Agent
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1891

posted      Profile for Sauron's Secret Agent   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I simply cannot get a clear photo of it!

As to what metal it is, I frankly have no idea. I don't know whether it is meant to be black or metallic, what I should try to remove, and what is intentional.

But it's a sword, and it's a thing of beauty, a work of a craftsman, and it must be saved!

Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wetwang
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1508

posted      Profile for Wetwang   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Éoric [] Were you playing the part of one of Harolds axe wielding homeguard? Nice outfit btw []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Keep the earth under your feet, & clay on your fingers; wisdom in your bones, & have both eyes open!
That's Mr Wang™ to you!
This place would be a paradise tomorrow if every department had a supervisor with a submachine gun.

This bog is thick and easy...

From: West Sussex UK, well on the seafront in Bognor Regis actually! | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I spent the earlier part of the day portraying a huscarl for the "Englisc" side. Hence the Dane axe. []

Later in the day, I spent time as a Norman knight, and I had a "kite" shield and Norman-style sword for those scenes. I even spent some on-camera time as one of William's standard-bearers.

The filming lasted 12 hours, and I'm really curious to see what bits of footage end up in the documentary and, conversely, which end up on the cutting-room floor.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I'm pretty happy with my kit--a combination of learning how to make some bits (the maille, shield, axe handle, shoes, belt, and puttees) and how/where to shop for authentic and appropriate pieces for other bits (the helmet, tunic and hose, and axe head).

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3302
posted      Profile for Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   Author's Homepage   Email Kjartan Fløgelfrikk   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Good-looking gear, Eoric! I fear you'd win if we ever fought. []

(Until my men behind the hill turned on my enormous electromagnet, that is!) []

From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Imbëar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 729
posted      Profile for Imbëar   Author's Homepage   Email Imbëar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
In the world of arms and armour, there is news!

I have finally received my 15th century low-comb morion, or kettle helm as commonly known and often referred.

I don't have any pictures of my own, but I can refer you to the armourer's web-site:

www.hammeredwombat.com

Recently completed items are pictured on the main page.

I'll take photos as soon as I get the suspension and quilted lining installed.

Imbëar

From: Auburn, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sam Gamgee
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2395

posted      Profile for Sam Gamgee   Email Sam Gamgee   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I do medieval staged fighting for my job. Thats right, actually, it's called Golden Gryphon Medieval Catering and Entertainment. I've also got the scars to prove it. Tip#142: DONT FIGHT WITH 9 LBS STAGE SWORDS, EVEN IF THEY'RE DULL! (it hurts and causes serious injuries, I should know)

Anyway, we're trying to find some new weapons, (other than swords) and it's very hard to find places that make stage combat weapons such as morningstars, flails, shields, etc. Weapons that can actually be used (as in they wont break on contact) but are made to prevent injury. Anyone got any good sites?

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Elladar
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5065
posted      Profile for Elladar   Author's Homepage   Email Elladar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I use swords generally. Or spears. Or swords and spears. Or swords and spears and dwarf shields (Yes, using the dwarf as the shield)

-Elladar, Lord of Mirkwood
(Legolas' brother. Ever wonder why they never talk about him inheriting anything? I am his unmentioned elder brother. I think Tolkien doesnt like me. Was it something I said?)

From: Juneau, Alaska (It's part of Tol Falas) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Fantasy Games » Proper fighting (re-enactment) (Page 5)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1