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Minas Tirith Forums » Fantasy Games » Proper fighting (re-enactment) (Page 1)
Author Topic: Proper fighting (re-enactment)
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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Does anybody do re-enactment?
I do viking/dark age medieval re-enactment, and though I've been using wooden weapons up to now, I'm capable of using iron weapons. I just haven't been able to afford it! I'll get myself a sword and maybe a spear by this summer.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jango
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tell me you know how to fence.
From: US Virgin Islands | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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If you're talking about "have you been taking lessons to learn how to fight re-enactment with weapons", then yes. But if you're talking about "classical duelling" like you see on tv, then no.
My former post makes me look like somebody who doesn't know what he's doing, but I've been doing this for a few years, with veterans, so to speak.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Jango
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As long as you know how to use them.
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Éoric of the Riddermark
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I'm into historical reenactment and medieval combat as well, and I'm a member of several groups. My favorite is Regia Anglorum, because their authenticity standards are outstanding.

Which group(s) do you participate in?

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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I'm not really a member of a fighting group yet, I only think there's one in Norway (though don't take my word for it!). Here's a link to the place I hang out at when re-enacting: http://www.living-history.no/indexm_e.html
I'm part of (first member actually!) Agder Vikinglag which reside there.
About Regia Anglorum, I hear they sometimes are a bit too stuck up on details and authenticity, yet I have never seen it firsthand, so it's not for me to say!
So what's your favourite weaponry?
I enjoy sword and shield, but spear and dagger is to me the most fun. I once tried fighting a german guy who used spear and axe, you'd think it would be easy to take him down as his edges are so small, but it was really awkward!

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Éoric of the Riddermark
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Yes, Regia Anglorum's authenticity standards are seen by some as too strict. In fact, that's one reason there are two major Viking Age reenactment societies in the UK; they were a single club at one point, but split due to differences in authenticity goal. Having said that, I have to add that I personally love Regia's standards! It's true that it may take some extra time to get together a Regia-legal kit because of the strict guidelines, but they help you with that. And once you do finish your kit, it's cool to know that from your hood to your turnshoes, you're as authentic as you can get, and you can prove it. []

I'm also a member of groups with very low authenticity standards, and one or two groups that basically have almost no standards (allowing fantasy elements). Each is fun in its own way, but in general I like the strictly authentic groups the most. Especially when I see many societies/clubs that aren't very authentic do public demos and assume an "educational" role, where they spread disinformation about our ancestors. []

Incidentally, I'm mostly Danish (my last name is Nielsen), and still have relatives in Viborg and thereabouts. That's another reason I really enjoy Regia Anglorum--the focus of the group allows me to portray an early 11th century Dane. I usually portray a Dane in England at that time, though sometimes I'm a warrior on campaign with King Sveinn when he began his attacks in 1003 AD in response to the St. Brice's Day Massacre.

I enjoy several weapons and combos, but my favorite is a shield and one-handed axe. I enjoy both the challenges and the advantages an axe has over a sword, though I really enjoy sword-work as well. And spear is a lot of fun, though it isn't a form that comes naturally to me.

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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I know what you mean about people who spread the wrong information about the past. There's a lot of that going on on the web (let's not forget the Nazis and neo-nazis) and in real life. Luckily there aren't any nazis doing re-enactment, though I remember last year me and my buddy noticed a somewhat untrustworthy fellow from our town was speaking to our instructor. My buddy got the message through to our instructor, and no lessons were given.
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Celebranthir
Soldier of Gondor
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Fløgelfrikk! my axe will slay you this summer at Bronseplassen!


-----------------------

I will flay your skin from your flesh and your flesh from your bones and i will scrape your bones dry..... Still you will not have suffered enaugh!!!!!

From: Norway | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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Celebranthir the Mitted! My spear shalt seek thy spleen, as my sax will claim thy heart! May wolves and ravens feast on thy puny self!
I will hang your head from the highest mountain, so that all shall see that some people just don't know how to use an axe... []

Til striðs! Til bardaga! Finnumsk á feginsdegi, striðsbroðir!

Mange menn matet meitemakk med melk, men Håvard hogget hull i egen hals....

He se Þe wið mec feoteð, Heaweard gehated, wat ðæt ic betere eom mid spere Þonne he is mid scylde ond sweorde... Oft he hleap aweg forhtende ond sár, ac nu gára swiftost hine cwellan will!


We shall fight, then we shall arise as though never slain, then we shall return to the hall and feast. Then we will wake up in the morning and fight some more!


[] ...and you didn't even wish me a happy birthday, you maggot brain! []

(BTW, this is the guy I was talking about, not the nazi nor the instructor though. )

[ 06-12-2003, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Kjartan Fløgelfrikken ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Viscount Værtalion
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i'll wish you that, this is quite comic you know, i see the Viking spirit reliving, although when you typed that you were sitting on chairs with a soda/coffee next to you, eh?
so that means you guys are....courageous couch-potatoes!

From: Serapion | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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We may bark louder than we bite, but we... hmmmm...
Oh dear! Did you know the potato wasn't even in Europe in the viking age?!?
We're not historically correct!!! Aaarrgghh! []

It's good fun, though, I highly recommend it []
And it's not as dangerous as it seems either, a lot of people get scared off when they see us fighting with metal weapons without helmets. We do use padded gloves and have a restricted target area. I have never been injured (except I got a shield on my thumb, but that doesn't really count [] ) and there have never been any deaths caused by re-enactment. The real thing, on the other hand........ []


Edit - A little something from the Pony:

= [] ... [] ...
...... [] [] ...
.........../\.....

Little did Celebranðir know, his life was about to change.....

[ 06-14-2003, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Kjartan Fløgelfrikken ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Celebranthir
Soldier of Gondor
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Fløgelfrikk is right, it is great fun to fight and there are more and more people who start fighting in all of europe. It is like karate or Ju-jitsu only it is a western marshal art.... you should try it.


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-Eigi skal madr haltr ganga medan båda føtr jevnlanga eru-

[ 06-15-2003, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Celebranthir ]

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Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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quote:
It is like karate or Ju-jitsu only it is a western marshal art....
Yeah, except all the jumping around and swooshy sounds! []


Edit - Isn't that supposed to be "Eigi skal maðr haltr ganga meðan báðir føtr jafnlangir eru" CelebranÞir? Just cause you always get hit in the thigh.... []

[ 06-15-2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Kjartan Fløgelfrikken ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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So here's a question that's been discussed much among historians, archaeologists and re'enactors alike: the huscarls wielding the giant dane-axe; were they situated inside or outside of the shieldwall, and how "tight" was the shieldwall?
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Fabian
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If historians and archaeologists don't know, then how should we?

I imagine the shield wall to be quite "open", so to speak. Not basing this on any kind of evidence, just my general idea of viking mentality/fighting style.
If so, the huskarl could well be standing within it.

quote:
The real thing, on the other hand........
Well...
From: Sweden, land of... err... stuff. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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I see your point []
But would not the huscarl be very open to attacks? Nobody wants to attack a huscarl in the open field as he has enough room to manouver freely, but in a shield wall, wouldn't he have less space to wield his axe? This IMO weakens the shield-wall, and if it's already open, having him in it wouldn't gain much. I agree the shield-wall would be somewhat open, but not too open. The shields wouldn't need to overlap, but they should be touching each other. IMO huscarls should enter the frontline after the shield-wall has been breached. Standing behind it before, they could kill anybody who'd get through.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Steve
Soldier of Gondor
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I do viking and dark age reenactment.

I think that Shield walls would need to overlap. What you lose in manouvering room you gain back in a steady line.

If they are not overlapped then people can barge into them (they are and were people crazy enough to try it) and start creating gaps in your line = your death.

If the shields link together they cannot split them and you maintain your unit cohesion and stay together. This is especially important if you have groups of polearms.

What do you think?

If you are in the UK. Which events are you going to? Tintagill? Tewksbury?

I also do LARPing and have great fun doing it. I am off to an event in Derby tomorrow ... I'm so excited!!!

[ 06-26-2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Steve ]

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Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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The less experienced fighters, the tighter wall I think. But in most cases, it will break in the end anyway, that's where huskarls come in. Against polearms the wall must hold together. []
Another thing is that you should be situated near friends or at least people you know, as this increases morale and effinciency (you know each other and each others fighting-styles). When somebody breaks through, huskarls should take care of the problem.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

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Radagast the Squib
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I agree with Kjartan... []
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Fabian
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Point. The huskarl might well be part of the shield wall.

BTW, when you say Dane axe, are you refering to what I would call a beard axe?

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Radagast the Squib
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No the shield wall is made entirely of dwarves []

[ 06-29-2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Radagast the Istari ]

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Fabian
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Interesting theory. Do you mean the dwarves are holding the shields, or the dwarves are used as shields?
From: Sweden, land of... err... stuff. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kjartan Fløgelfrikk
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Yes, the dane-axe is the beard-axe, the big one. But like I've said before (I think?), a huskarl w/dane-axe hasn't got any protection save his axe, which might be difficult to swing in such a tight situation as a shield wall. And if there's also a bunch of dwarves in front of him, where's he then supposed to swing it? []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I'll drink to that.

From: Sector ZZ plural Z alpha | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Fabian
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He could swing the axe above the dwarves.
But as I said, he could start out as part of the shield wall, then when it collapses he picks up the axe and goes swinging.
Why does it have to be a huskarl anyway? What if you don't have huskarls?

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