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Minas Tirith Forums » Other Tolkien Productions » The hunt for Gollum (Page 2)
Author Topic: The hunt for Gollum
Sarah the Good Witch
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You're supposed to give it leniency (i.e. a carte blanche) because "it's an amateur project..."
so I move that we re-name it "The Blair Witch-king Project!" []

[ 05-08-2009, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Ulairë Gordis
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quote:
Probably the script writer didn't know that. []
Nor did Sauron's intelligence department. []

It could have been a wonderful sub-plot illustrating Aragorn's words "The Enemy has set traps for me before now." []

Also I so much expected to see Aragorn threading the deadly pale flowers of the Morgul Vale in search of Gollum. But no. Also the place where Gollum was caught hardly looks like Dead Marches.

On the plus side, the European landscapes really do look so much better than New Zealand ones...

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Sarah the Good Witch
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quote:
Also the place where Gollum was caught hardly looks like Dead Marches.
And he wasn't caught in a cartoon-bag trap: As I recall from the book, Aragorn grabbed Gollum by the neck, and Gollum bit him hard enough to cause "teeth-marks..." and Aragorn beat the snot out of Gollum for it (as he put it, "I was not gentle"), putting a gag and halter on him and making him walk before him without food or water until he was too weak to try to escape.
Obviously they were too cheap (or politically correct) to show that, so they pulled the "he's in the bag...trust us" bit, having Aragorn (shown as a fairly little guy rather than a mighty king) supposedly carry Gollum on his back for hundreds of miles.
In short: video-fanfic.

[ 05-08-2009, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Ulairë Gordis
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I would readily forgive Gollum-in-the-bag solution: no way could this low-budget film afford extended scenes with entirely digital Gollum. Think about the costs...
I rather think it was clever. []

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
I rather think it was clever.
That's what I was thinking when I was watching it - there might even be copyright reasons stopping them from copying Gollum's looks, even if the cost hadn't been a concern. I suppose he's a work of art and can be copyrighted, unlike Aragorn/Mortensen and Gandalf/McKellen (at least not to the same extent).
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Sarah the Good Witch
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I was thinking just use an actor.
And copyright doesn't really apply to fanfic.

[ 05-09-2009, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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I agree that using an actor might have made an even better story. They were limiting themselves too much by trying to make it look like a PJ production.

In a stage adaptions the director would have to use an actor - I haven't seen the Musical production in London, but I'm sure someone is playing Gollum there. So it can be done. But then it wouldn't look like PJ made it, so as long as they seem to think that is important ...

Copyright doesn't apply fully to fanfic - but I believe it becomes more of an issue if said fanfic gets a lot of attention. Didn't someone say that they were not allowed to distribute the movie even for free download for copyright reasons, and had to limit their service to online viewing? If the copyright holder notices what you're doing, you have to do as you're told ...

Even fanfiction.net refuses to host some fanfics because the author has said that she doesn't want anyone to write fanfiction from her books (Robin McKinley being one, if I remember rightly). I guess you're not likely to get in trouble if you write fanfics from her universe on your private blog, but a site which officially hosts fanfiction - and thus gets attention - has to be more careful.

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Sarah the Good Witch
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quote:
I agree that using an actor might have made an even better story. They were limiting themselves too much by trying to make it look like a PJ production.
Which I didn't care for either, since he just looked too unreal: there's simply no way he could have ever been a hobbit.
Unfortunately, THfG seems to have been made by PJ-fans, since everything looks virtually identical except the landscapes (thank goodness).

quote:
Copyright doesn't apply fully to fanfic - but I believe it becomes more of an issue if said fanfic gets a lot of attention. Didn't someone say that they were not allowed to distribute the movie even for free download for copyright reasons, and had to limit their service to online viewing? If the copyright holder notices what you're doing, you have to do as you're told ...
I think that was just out of courtesy to Tolkien's estate: if they did distribute it, I don't know what they could be sued for copying. This was original material, and so it would simply be protected as free speech, since they're not making any money off of it that I can see. As long as they don't claim credit for anything that's not theirs, then there's really no infringement.

quote:
Even fanfiction.net refuses to host some fanfics because the author has said that she doesn't want anyone to write fanfiction from her books (Robin McKinley being one, if I remember rightly). I guess you're not likely to get in trouble if you write fanfics from her universe on your private blog, but a site which officially hosts fanfiction - and thus gets attention - has to be more careful
More like fanfiction.net is a commercial website which runs ads for profit, and therefore qualifies as commercial speech; meanwhile the "Hunt for Gollum" website is entirely ad-free AFAIK, so it qualifies as private speech. Commercial speech isn't protected by the same freedoms as private speech, obviously.

[ 05-09-2009, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Tigranes
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Seems we basically all agree on this topic...

[ 05-09-2009, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Sarah the Good Witch
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Yep: THfG is a PJ-fansite, what with Rangers holding swords to each other's throats and all (loved the Rifftrax "the first blade lifts the whisker...)

[ 05-09-2009, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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In an interview with BBC News, the director says,
quote:
We got in touch with Tolkien Enterprises and reached an understanding with them that as long as we are completely non-profit then we're okay. We have to be careful not to disrespect their ownership of the intellectual property. They are supportive of the way fans wish to express their enthusiasm.

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Ulairë Gordis
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One thing is great: Now we finally have one fan-film issued and Tolkien estate really doesn't complain. So very soon I expect many more fanfilms - and some of them MAY well be good!

[ 05-10-2009, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Ulairë Gordis ]

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Hamfast Gamgee
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I suppose that with the internet and graphics and what-not it must be possible to produce this type of thing more cheaply. I have often wondered why the Tolkien purists, of whom there seem to be many, club together and try to film one for themselves? I'm sure one of you lot must possess a decent camera!
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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I'm keeping my hope(s) up for Born of Hope - they seem to have a little more independent view of what they're aiming for.

They cooperated with The Hunt for Gollum, btw - filming on the same locations and using the same costumes ...

There's so much more to making a film than just picking up a camera.

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Sarah the Good Witch
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As for Gandalf calling Bibo "the foolish hobbit--" particuarly to Aragorn: Gandalf's exact words to Frodo were "as for the name, Bilbo very foolishly told Gollum himself;" however Gandalf would obviously never consider Bilbo himself "foolish," meanwhile they both were obviouly very good friends of Bilbo, holding him in high honor. Likewise, hobbits naturally weren't careful about giving out their proper names-- for which Treebeard observed that "you are a hasty folk." However Bilbo did learn, and didn't give his name to Smaug.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Hammy, my camera's ok, but the time it takes to make something even as short as the half-hour HfG is prohibitive to most people. To do it right it has to be your life for the entire time you're working on it or you'll never get it done, and most people have other obligations already.
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Sarah the Good Witch
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quote:
There's so much more to making a film than just picking up a camera.
[IMG]

Yes: if you're PJ, there's SFX, flyover-scenery shots, endless zoom-in close-ups....

[ 05-15-2009, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Snöwdog
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I rather enjoyed this little clip. []
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Madomir
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quote:
Unfortunately, THfG seems to have been made by PJ-fans, since everything looks virtually identical except the landscapes
Pretty much sums it up. They did a good job production-wise, especially for an amateur group. But the PJ influence was too damn obvious for my liking. The 'ranger in the woods' bit was kinda silly. What self respecting ranger would not know Aragorn? Although he had heard a little about that Strider guy. []

All in all, it was worth watching, but I wouldn't watch it again.

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Mablung
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quote:
What self respecting ranger would not know Aragorn? Although he had heard a little about that Strider guy.
US Marine: "Obama? Who's that? Are you that Barry guy?" []
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Snöwdog
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quote:
" Unfortunately, THfG seems to have been made by PJ-fans, since everything looks virtually identical except the landscapes"
Arwen sure looked better! []
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Snöwdog
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I just watched this again< & I think if these amateurs had the budget PJ was given, they' done a much better job of it. I like this clip. []
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Mablung
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The problems weren't due to the budget, as I saw it, but the same unrealism and over-the-top nature as the movie. For example:

-Aragorn = The Flash: i.e. invisibly making an orc disappear in the woods, while the other sees and hears nothing. Even Rambo was more realistic, and he covered himself in thick mud to do ambush one patroller at a time. They didn't just show an enemy disappearing. If you want to show Ranger-stealth, actually show it: trick-photography just makes it look unrealistic. Ask an actual British Army instructor or something: truth is better than fiction. Or use a secret Ranger bird-call etc.
-Indiana Jones school of fight-choreography: again, it's better to make it look realistic.
- Greeting friends with a blade at their throat: a Ranger not knowing Aragorn, again, that would be like a marine not knowing the president. Instead of "greetings, my lord," we see a Ranger play the part of Nicole Simpson.
-Generic orcs: all orcs looked the same, i.e. unrealistic and hideous. There were no gobins, uruks, no devices or gear to designate or differentiate them. It would have been easier to just use acting and make-up so that they just looked too evil to pass for human.
-I don't agree that Arwen looked good: even though it was better than the "Michael Jackson" face we saw in the movie, that's not saying enough. It would have been quite easy to audition high-school girls who wanted to "act" and "be famous," and just pick the best one, put a ton of make-up on her, film it through a filter, digitally enhance the image, and use a voice-over. Arwen is too important to just use the producer's daughter.
-Ranger = derelict: an unkempt beard makes anyone look like a caveman. Aragorn should look rugged, not haggard.

I don't like to critique, but that's just what stood out for me.

[ 08-25-2009, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Mablung ]

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Snöwdog
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I suppose if one wants to nit-pick it to death, then it's utter rubbish. Three big-budget 3-hour movies it ain't, just a twenty minute amateur clip based on the big-budget 3-hour movies.
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Mablung
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You're right, an indie film's strength is in originality: when they try to copy big-studio films, they throw that away.

[ 08-28-2009, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: Mablung ]

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