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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Lord of the Rings » Material and non-material changes (Page 2)
Author Topic: Material and non-material changes
The White Hand
Guard of the Citadel
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quote:
I would disagree with you slightly there. Those numbers seem accurate for a champion of men, but not an average man (even a warrior).

Boromir killed more than 20 orcs including Uruk-Hai from Isengard, so I would think a human soldier could do at least 1/4 as well.

quote:
That was the heart of the dread men (and dwarves and elves as well) felt at the resurgence of Sauron. Their numbers dwindled from their ancient heights, while orc numbers were growing. Add to that the news of the stature of orcs increasing to nearly match men, ringwraiths clouding minds with oblivion and impending death (not to mention the darkening of the sky), and it seems like despair was the only option during the siege of Minas Tirith. The culmination of the breaking of Denethor shows how skilled a writer Tolkien was (and how fragile the story could be in the hands of a hack team of screenwriters).
Where is anything stated about orcs getting bigger, other than the Uruk-hai from Isengard, like Ugluk, who seemed to have some human blood? The orc-chief in Moria was said to be "huge," but still was only "almost man-high." Meanwhile only the Olog-hai were said to be "taller and broader than men," so any evil person bigger and stronger than a man is most likely a troll. The uruks had been around for about 500 years, but they were still not superior to men.

My point is that orcs were not, and never were, any match for men as to call it "the age of the orc." And no way would Sauron make an orc his second in command of the Morgul-army, as Jackson did by making Gothmog into an orc. Sauron's effective army was made up of men from all over the world, orcs wouldn't do it.
Maybe Jackson didn't want to have men fighting men much, since he saw it as a fantasy and couldn't handle the reality of war. So he just had humans battling mythical evil creatures for the most part, and avoided the problem of war by playing ostrich.

[ 11-30-2010, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: The White Hand ]

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White Gold Wielder
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Yeah, I knew I was taking a risk getting off-topic bringing it up. How many orcs Boromir could take compared to Beregond is a discussion for another thread. So are the half-orcs and goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman had bred.
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The White Hand
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Also don't forget that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli pursued
hundreds of orcs across Rohan, obviously thinking he had the advantage.
True, Saruman's "Uruk-hai 2.0" allowed 10,000 to take on a few hundred men at Helm's Deep, when Saruman armed the orcs with explosives; so I suppose that is an improvement.

Speaking of which, likewise, someone help me out here, please: the movie clearly shows Saruman rousing up the hillbillies against Helm's, deep due to their ancient land-feud against Rohan; but I don't remember seeing any hill-men actually fighting there, like they did in the book: just orcs. Did anyone else see them?

Same at the Pelennor; I saw a few men on Oliphaunts, but aside from that it was all orcs. In the book, meanwhile, the orcs were simply the seige-force who set up the catapults, while the actual battle was fought by men.

[ 12-01-2010, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: The White Hand ]

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Madomir
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quote:
Speaking of which, likewise, someone help me out here, please: the movie clearly shows Saruman rousing up the hillbillies against Helm's, deep due to their ancient land-feud against Rohan; but I don't remember seeing any hill-men actually fighting there, like they did in the book: just orcs. Did anyone else see them?
Can't remember seeing men at Helm's Deep, but wasn't there a cut in/flashback type scene of the Westfold getting raided? That may have been men but I can't really be sure. []
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The White Hand
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No, the Westfold-raiding was definitely Uruk-Hai.
That's another thing: most men aren't as cruel and evil as orcs, and so there's no moral dilemma with killing orcs; so the whole story was just an RPG brought to life, not Tolkien's story of real war.
That was another weakening. We didn't see Theoden or anyone else fighting the Southrons, other than a few masked generic Islamic-types atop giant cartoon elephants. Otherwise, no human armies, just "the age of the orc."
The only fully visible human I can recall at all, was the mumak-leader, who was ironically played by the same New Zealand actor who played the Witch-king. Since he hardly looks Numenorean, being here cast as a Haradrim, then I guess it paid off that Jackson only showed the Nazgul as distorted flutting ghost-like images in Frodo's ring-vision-- rather than seeing them plainly like in the book; then the nine actors he showed for 3 seconds at the opening, would have to be given a longer contract-- and that would mean less money to WETA and its B-quality SFX.. and worst of all, therefore, less in Peter's pocket.

[ 12-07-2010, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: The White Hand ]

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