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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Lord of the Rings » Purist Rage - How the Films Betrayed Tolkien's Legacy (Page 52)
Author Topic: Purist Rage - How the Films Betrayed Tolkien's Legacy
The White Hand
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The scenes of orcs banging on the gates of Minas Tirith with hand-held rams was pretty funny as well.

quote:
Just to add something that I'm not sure been's mentioned before:

In RoTK (movie) Faramir charges Osgiliath with 200 knights in the hope of taking back the city and winning his father's approval. Except that the scenario is so unbelievably ludicrous that there is no obvious strategic merit in the act at all, and so it appears that Faramir is actually riding out merely for the sake of his father's love.
Gone are key strategic ideas that make sense, including the one that Faramir's sortie (which in the book is not carried out via cavalry; it is a concerted campaign which actually slows the enemy at Osgiliath, thus paving the way for Rohan and delaying the siege)wasactually a fruitful enterprise.

Actually in the book, Denethor was trying to slow the advance of Grond; Denethor wasn't stupid as PJ thought him, since Denethor was full-aware that his forces would have an advantage at the city vs. Osgiliath. However his reasons are clear, by reading between the lines:

quote:
And now Faramir was gone again. ‘They give him no rest,’ some murmured. ‘The Lord drives his son too hard, and now he must do the duty of two, for himself and for the one that will not return.’ And ever men looked northward, asking: ‘Where are the Riders of Rohan?’
In truth Faramir did not go by his own choosing. But the Lord of the City was master of his Council, and he was in no mood that day to bow to others. Early in the morning the Council had been summoned. There all the captains judged that because of the threat in the South their force was too weak to make any stroke of war on their own part, unless perchance the Riders of Rohan yet should come. Meanwhile they must man the walls and wait.
‘Yet,’ said Denethor, ‘we should not lightly abandon the outer defences, the Rammas made with so great a labour. And the Enemy must pay dearly for the crossing of the River. That he cannot do, in force to assail the City, either north of Cair Andros because of the marshes, or southwards towards Lebennin because of the breadth of the River, that needs many boats. It is at Osgiliath that he will put his weight, as before when Boromir denied him the passage.’
‘That was but a trial,’ said Faramir. ‘Today we may make the Enemy pay ten times our loss at the passage and yet rue the exchange. For he can afford to lose a host better than we to lose a company. And the retreat of those that we put out far afield will be perilous, if he wins across in force.’
‘And what of Cair Andros?’ said the Prince. ‘That, too, must be held, if Osgiliath is defended. Let us not forget the danger on our left. The Rohirrim may come, and they may not. But Faramir has told us of great strength drawing ever to the Black Gate. More than one host may issue from it, and strike for more than one passage.’
‘Much must be risked in war,’ said Denethor. ‘Cair Andros is manned and no more can be sent so far. But I will not yield the River and the Pelennor unfought – not if there is a captain here who has still the courage to do his lord’s will.’
Then all were silent, but at length Faramir said: ‘I do not oppose your will, sire. Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will go and do what I can in his stead – if you command it.’
‘I do so,’ said Denethor.
‘Then farewell!’ said Faramir. ‘But if I should return, think better of me!’
‘That depends on the manner of your return,’ said Denethor.

Denethor protected the Pelennor at Osgiliath, and not Cair Andros, because he had seen Grond approaching in the palantir, and wanted to slow its advance until Rohan arrived.
Of course this flew over PJ's short little head, and he just saw Denethor as a charlatan and a fool, a virtual copy of Nigel Hawthorne's "Mad King George."
Likewise, Faramir only lost a third of his company, while PJ shows all of them getting pasted; Faramir only surives at all, because his horse drags him all the miles from Osgiliath to Minas Tirth--- by a stirrup, no less[/i]-- but somehow Pippin thinks that he "just needs some medicine."
I'm not a doctor, but I can't think of any Rx for curing that; even a shot of Athelas couldn't help.

quote:
As my own father pointed out, he's sacrificing 200 other lives for the sake of winning Denethor's love.
Gone are key strategic ideas that make sense, including the one that Faramir's sortie (which in the book is not carried out via cavalry; it is a concerted campaign which actually slows the enemy at Osgiliath, thus paving the way for Rohan and delaying the siege)was actually a fruitful enterprise.

But in the book, it was the Black Breath that did him in; but since there was no Black Breath in the film, then "changes were inevitable."
The anti-hero angle also needed emphasis, particularly since PJ's Aragorn was such an incompetent boob, that everyone else needed to look like a complete moron -- we're talking Jar-Jar Binks 3 points past the legal limit-- in order to make him look good by comparison.
quote:
While Jackson's (et al.) decision to "simplify" (presumably they thought they were "improving" upon the book) the scene was obviously designed to increase the sense of pathos and inevitable ruin, the strategic situation is dumbed down to such an extent that it backfires, and so it seems as if Faramir is a solopsistic aristocratic pig who has absolutely no sense of humanity (except his own).

Again, it's the anti-hero angle, i.e. he has to be made a fool, so that he can learn that he is a fool; and then, again, someone else has to look even more foolish to make him look better.
Denethor was simply at the bottom of that "fool chain".

When in the book, the case was the opposite; like Treebeard, Faramir was dumbed down and simplified into a raving boor who needed to be taught humanity by hobbits. He gets schooled by Sam, and then befriends Pippin (in the book he befriends Merry) while claiming that he was a truant (in reality Faramir was the heir-apparent loremaster of the White City). Likewise, Faramir wouldn't allow his men to shoot anything without need, which was why Anborn didn't shoot Gollum at first sight, and all knew him and loved him (as did those who followed Aragorn (so much for that).

This is the "anti-hero" angle I addressed in another thread, i.e. the story aims for cynicism by intending mediocrity, and then acts "courageous" for their "daring iconoclasm--" when it's just a pure "Robert Maplethorpe."

quote:
The later charge by Imrahil and his knights has a very specific agenda. Not only is it actually ordered by Denethor, it is designed explicity to save Faramir and his men while they are retreating, not retake Osgiliath. I mean, what were the filmmakers thinking

The same thing as before: the main characters (I can't call them "heroes" since the film's anti-hero) are all made mediocre, and so they "send in the clowns" to make them look heroic by comparison. And the clowns, of course, are political strawmen for classic values which PJ despises in his liberal politically-correct iconoclasm of attacking classic values.

quote:
Gone too are the strategic infrastructure which make Minas Tirith a viable defensible position - the Causway Forts, the Rammas Echor, the populated Pellennor Fields, even a Minas Tirith of any substance. The shrinking of the whole "strategic field", if you like, does contribute to a sense of doom, I suppose, but it does so supperficially.

Not gone-- deliberately debased.
But everything was shrunk, in mockery of the story, to make it look petty and stupid in anti-hero fashion, vs. grand and legendary.

quote:
It is for want of skill as a filmmaker that Jackson et al. thought they needed to dumb the whole situation down as much as they did. If they really were smart, they wouldh've kept to the descriptions in the books, and found ways to communicate pathos and impending war and high stakes without recourse to "generic fantast land" syndrome.
That would require effort, skill, and at least a clue about life in general; and they had all but three of these things. PJ doesn't know ancient Europe from modern New Zealand, just like he doesn't know Middle-Earth from the ass-end of the world; in fact it's questionable what he does have a clue with regard to Tolkien's work, other than his early exposure to it through the RPG's of Gary Gygax which basically ripped off it purely for the fantasy-adventure without the moral-- which is like saying Aesop's Fables were about talking animals.

[ 01-02-2011, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: The White Hand ]

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Snöwdog
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Glad this thread was cleaned up... []

having managed to sit and watch the three extended DVDs over three weekends, I have to say they were extremely average at best. Good for their day, but they sure don't have the staying power with me. Maybe I'll try watching them again in 2017...

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tumhalad
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Yeah, I didn't think the EE's were anything special to write home about. They generally exasperated an already bloated set of films, and the RoTK EE was especially glaring and full of non-sequiturs. Apparently it is okay for Aragorn to lop the head off an enemy in the middle of negotiations. []
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Tigranes
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quote:
Apparently it is okay for Aragorn to lop the head off an enemy in the middle of negotiations.
Especially seeing as it's exactly the opposite of what he does in the book. These films are downright retarded at some point, and much of it is Peter Jacksn's doing.
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Artaresto
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The earliest WiKi rant:
quote:
Story: Classic English fantasy tale + Greek epic adventure + war-movie with great character interaction and poetry.
Movie: Medieval-set B-action movie with bad sarcasm and a cheap plot, but a few good special effects (emphasis on "few;") manic-depressive version of "The Wizard of Oz" set on a much smaller scale than the book.

Story Middle-Earth: Ancient Europe.
Movie Middle Earth: Modern New Zealand.

Story Frodo: Most respectable Hobbit in the Shire: stout little fellow with red cheeks, taller than some, fairer than most, perky chap with a bright eye.
Movie Frodo: Stoned, depressed anorexic.

Story Sam: Working-class country hobbit, strong and sturdy, slow but shrewd, fiercely loyal and humble, but appears slow and stupid. Chief investigator for the Hobbiton Conspiracy.
Movie Sam: See "Story Frodo," but perpetually glum; simply nosey.

Story Pippin Took: Heir to the Thain of the Shire, oldest and richest family among the hobbits; carefree adventurer and member of the Hobbiton Conspiracy.
Movie Pippin: Village idiot and bum; mostly comic-relief.

Story Merry: Heir to the Mastership of Buckland and even greater adventurer than Pippin, co-founding member of the Hobbiton Conspiracy.
Movie Merry: Village idiot's side-kick.

Story Treebeard: Most ancient and wise, leader of man-like creatures who slightly resemble trees, having great strength that can break stone, rend earth and crush armies; but also a very kind heart.
Movie Treebeard: Ignorant and selfish, tree-like creatures who slightly resemble men, but who can roll a few boulders into a flimsy dam.

Story Isengard: Great stronghold over a mile wide, surrounding the tower of Orthanc with great walls of stone near the river Isen.
Movie Isengard: Smaller-scale version of the book-Isengard in front of a handy dam that, when broken, will destroy the entire area.

Story Boromir: Capain-General of Gondor, Tall, fair of face, proud and stern of glance, more beautiful in death even than in life; great warrior with marvellous strength. Loves and protects his brother, father and country above all else, and finds the return of Aragorn to be a blessing beyond hope. Tragic hero who falls to temptation but redeems himself by sacrificing his life in fighting hundreds and slaying dozens.
Movie Boromir: Fat, dirty and ugly, falls to a single bowman; detests Aragorn, and only accepts him through insistance of actor Sean Bean. Just plain tragic.

Story Denethor: Numenor's greatest steward, tall, wise and beautiful; has the strength of mind to match wills with Sauron via the Palantir, but is driven to despair over great loss and the lies of Sauron.
Movie Denethor: Suicidal dotard and fool.

Story Mordor: land of shadow, filled with innumerable armies and choked with ash; can darken the skies for hundreds of miles at Sauron's word; crossed by Frodo in two weeks.
Movie Mordor: considerably smaller, can be crossed in a day.

Story Sauron: His skin is black and burning hot, hideous to look upon, four fingers on his left hand; his symbol is a lidless red eye. If he gets the Ring back, he will become so powerful that the world will fall under his evil sway.
Movie Sauron: A lidless red eye. If he gets the ring back? Boromir asks this question but it's never answered.

Story Meduseld: Great golden hall, home of King Theoden, but mocked by Saruman as "a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek."
Movie Meduseld: A thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek-- and don't even have their own drinking-songs, being amazed to learn them from silly hobbits.

Wormtongue: Agent of Saruman who learned the art of bewitchment and persuasion, posing as Theoden's consellor in order him into feeling helpless and hopless while Saruman prepares to attack.
Movie Wormtongue: Grease-paint covered worthless agent, since Theoden is possessed by Saruman and thus has no need for a such a mole.

Story Helm's deep: Great, well-defended ancient fortress of stonework that pleased a dwarf, located within the Deeping Coomb atop the Glittering Caves with room for hundreds.
Movie Helm's deep: Small, mined-out gravel quarry, apparently converted into a "fort" by some bored children.

Story Legolas: Son of the wood-elf king, old and wise, often light-hearted but displays a full range of emotions. Family-friend of Frodo, sent to warn Elrond of Gollum's escape.
Movie Legolas: Peter Pan on Ritalin, flying around with a knife with no expression; somehow knows all about Gondorian heritage, but never heard of Frodo or Gollum.

Gimli: proud dwarf of the Lonely Mountain who distrusts elves but changes entirely into great love for Galadriel; likewise family-friend of Frodo. Strong and tireless.
Gimli: Court-dwarf jester who never heard of Frodo, and detests elves to the bitter end; can barely keep up on long runs.

Story Fellowship of the Ring: Band of adventurers sent to represent the Free peoples of Middle-Earth, with most simply travelling home: kept small and excluding powerful warriors in order to avoid drawing attention while trusting largely to fate.
Movie Fellowship of the Ring: Lousy excuse of an expedition which gets royally pummelled.

Story Saruman: Powerful wizard with a magically persuasive voice who falls to pride and temptation and secretly joins the enemy while seeking the Ring for himself; addicted to pipe-weed, but hates hobbits; appears throughout the story.
Movie Saruman: Count Dooku on a bad-hair day with a "No Smoking" binge ,who gives everything away in the first scene then disappears from the plot.

Story Rhadagast: nature-loving cousin of Gandalf.
Movie Rhadagast: Moth.

Narsil: Carried by Aragorn until re-forged upon undertaking the quest to destroy the Ring and re-named "Anduril;" none can withstand it, and it can break a wall of shields as with a lightning-stroke.
Movie Narsil: Collection of scrap-metal on a wall Rivendell, no special properties other than charming The Pirates of the Carribean.

Story Gondor: Last of the ancient kingdoms of Middle Earth in the great White Mountains (think Swiss Alps) and the Great River.
Movie Gondor: The mountains of New Zealand

Minas Tirith: Huge, near-impregnable city-fortress set on a mountain-side with unbreakable walls and towers of white marble into which no enemy every entered, and the gate-way in which Gandalf faced down the evil Witch-king as he rode in with a flaming sword.
Movie Minas Tirith: Seven-layer birthday-cake placed in some quaint New Zealand mountains and which crumbles from a thrown rock, and into which enemies entered freely while Gandalf cowered in a closet.

Story Shadowfax: Great, fiery horse with the speed of light and hearty hi-yo silver-grey coat.
Movie Shadofax: Mr. Ed back from the glue-factory.

Story Aragorn: Exiled King, and great leader; hardiest man alive, very tall, long, curved nose, high proud cheekbones, skin like ivory, keen eyes in pale stern face and shaggy hair flecked with grey; world's greatest tracker. Even the dead rise to follow him into battle when he calls them. Is never tempted to use the Ring, and plans to accompany Frodo all the way to Mount Doom.
Movie Aragorn: Slobby, unwashed dork with a big nose who passes for questionable comic-relief when getting a sword stuck in his face by a woman, or being french-kissed by his horse; doubts his own ability to resist the Ring (can't blame him there) so much that he abandons Frodo right before the most dangerous part of the journey. Sex-starved sailors wouldn't follow this geek into a free brothel.

Story Gandalf: Great mysterious wizard, stale curmudgeon, and dear friend-- never late except once; quick temper, kind heart, hearty laugh, long nose and bushy eyebrows!
Movie Gandalf: Senile; arrives when he pleases, impassive-- only shows he's alive when he bumps his head like an idiot.

Story Elrond: Fair of face as an elven-lord, strong as a warrior, wise as a wizard, and as kind as summer, and wielder of the greatest of the three great Rings of power.
Movie Elrond: Think "Agent Smith" if he joined the Romulan Empire.

Story Rivendell: Enchanted hidden green valley filled with the High-Elves who live laughing and singing in the trees under the stars, and who dwell in great mansions.
Movie Rivendell: Over-filtered, barely seen landscape in the distant background consisting of a few Gothic-architechtures, and a brick-patio in the foreground, with a few cloned Elves that walk down dirt-paths like stoned models walking on a runway in slow-mo.

Story Shire: Bustling country Victorian-village home of the hobbits, who are quiet folk with hidden abilities and courage who rally to arms when provoked-- AWAKE! AWAKE! FEAR, FIRE, FOES, AWAKE!
Movie Shire: Green-hilled home stolen from the Teletubbies, but inhabited by helpless, cowardly midgets-- FEAR, FIRE, FOES-- FLEE!

Story Bree: Town outside the Shire, about 150 miles from Hobbiton of where friendly Men and Hobbits live together.
Movie Bree: Village next door to Hobbiton with gates that break easily and with no noise, and cowardly inkeepers who leave their doors open and hide when intruders enter despite a full house.

Story Shelob: Evil creature in spider-form, child of Ungoliant, terror of Cirith Ungol.
Movie Shelob: Overgrown house-pest.

Story orcs: twisted elves bred by Melkor in the First Age, immortal and cruel.
Movie Orcs: Uglier version of the green goblin-guards from "The Wizard of Oz" or ape-like beings from the movie "Predator."

Story Nazgul: Think "Nazi Ghoul," Sauron's most terrible servants of great kings and wizards under his command, clearly visible to Frodo in the book.
Movie Nazgul: Jawa-like things who fear water while going up like torches near fire.

Story Arwen: Guinevere + The Virgin Mary.
Movie Arwen: Xena + rock-groupie.

Story Bombadil: Old man of the forest, and most powerful being; marginally essential to the story but important to story-context.
Movie Bombadil: Closest thing to a short stout bearded old man, would be Peter Jackson caught in a blooper-shot.

Story Glorfindel: Elven-lord of a house of princes who died and dwelt in the Blessed realm where he continues to exist, and returned to Middle-Earth in the fight against Sauron; great immortal warior of the Vanyar who can ride openly against the nine, and against the seen and unseen he has great power.
Movie Glorfindel: See "Arwen--" we did in the movie!

Quite amusing and apt. []

From: all the way back here

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Roll of Honor pi
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I liked that post.
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Madomir
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quote:
Movie Minas Tirith: Seven-layer birthday-cake placed in some quaint New Zealand mountains
[]

I've said this before, prob'ly in this thread, but I thought the scale of many of the sets were just way off. Minas Tirith & Edoras in particular were just far too small to operate the way Tolkien intended them to. Edoras is supposed to be it's nation's capital for cryin' out loud but PJ's version looked smaller than Bree!

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Elora Starsong
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I never considered myself either a purist or revisionist. I don't like unnecessary, redundant labels so I am careful not to take such things to myself where possible. I suspect I was like a great many others in that I found some things pretty cannonical in Tolkien's work, greatly specific, and others less so. I was happy to play with the fuzzier areas if it pleased my imagination and happy to leave the more concrete aspects intact and untampered with.

I found the movies to be alright. They aren't cinema, they aren't cr@p, they have good points and bad points. Legolas really annoyed me, to point where I would forget my aversion to talking to the TV and scream obscenities whenever I saw Legolas doing some extreme sport stunt in each movie (Moria pillar surfing, Helms Deep shield skating and Pelannor Fields Oliphaunt abseiling). Also, there was this one spot in The Two Towers that always put me to sleep no matter the occassion. Starsong soporific...But there were other things that fit my sense of how it was written in the books.

I didn't hate them, and wasn't in a rage. I mean, movies are always different from the book and I saw little point in getting my panties in knot over it occuring this time. I mean, in the scheme of things, whoopdie do. However, I have always thought that if I was one of those who did have tangled underwear because of the movies, the best expression of rage is indifference. To feel rage is to care. To feel apathy is something deeper again than rage.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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I find it odd that most people I speak to in real life about the movies if they have seen them all seem to love them, yet on the Internet most have a much more negative opinion of them. I suppose that the Internet is an outlet for that particular point of view.
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Vahndel
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If I had any sense of rage against the films, it would mainly boil down to the overall wasted potential. I can't really blame the actors for being cast and working with what material they were given, regardless how mis-cast I thought they were. Plus, the movies were enjoyable enough on their own that they managed to get many young minds interested in hunting down the books themselves(not a bad thing at all, even if some purists shake their head at being introduced to the series that way, probably because it means they're inevitably going to hear some more FAQs [] ).

To say it was a poor adaptation is being generous, since Middle-Earth ultimately became just a vessel for PJ's own fantasy blockbuster vision, but they were fun to watch and I enjoyed taking in the New Zealand landscape.

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The White Hand
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Let's just face it, that PJ is Disney without drawing-talent-- i.e. both are movie-caricaturists who take famous stories and caricature both the story and the moral, bizarrely exaggerating and distorting the form, while shrinking the content-- and creating something which might be mildly amusing and entertaining in a cheap way, but which no sane person would credit with preserving the original beauty of the genuine article.

For example, can anyone tell me how PJ's Lord of the Rings, was different from any ANY Disney movie based on a famous story or book? I can't think of one.

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White Gold Wielder
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I haven't done it in a while, but as this is a thread with special rules, I edited and deleted posts that were not in keeping with those rules.

Rage on!

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The White Hand
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All hail the White Gold Wielder! [] []

Vahndel:
quote:
I can't really blame the actors for being cast and working with what material they were given, regardless how mis-cast I thought they were.
They were perfectly cast-- for the roles as PJ destroyed them.

I can say with absolute certainty, for example, that none of the actors ever bothered researching the materials, or consulting with Chris Tolkien etc-- but this would have been a mistake anyway: since first of all, they weren't paid much beyond scale (Sean Astin only got $250,000 to play Sam-- that's not even scale for 3 years in a starring role); and the story wasn't true to those writings, so there's no point in accurately researching a character whom the bosses are trying to SMEAR, you'd just make yourself crazy.

Example: imagine a highly-respected young actress playing Arwen (like a young Barbara Hershey, who played both Juliet and the Virgin Mary)-- spending months researching the part, and learning that

1) Arwen forsook her immmortality to marry Aragorn, "the Choice of Luthien--" and then grew old with him, and so
2) learned the full price of that sacrifice when he parted with her at last; and so finally forgave the Numenoreans, her ancestors whom she had condemned as wicked fools for their treachery?
And then
3) old and bereft, she went forth from the city as queen, and returned to Lorien to die there on Cerin Amroth, where she and Aragorn were first betrothed.

Now, after reading all that, and preparing to play that part, what happens?
PJ runs her through the lines where Agent Elrond Smith curses her for marrying Aragorn, saying she'll stay immortal while he gets old and dies?

Obviously, you'd be better off with Liv Tyler-- who can't act, doesn't read, and doesn't care; and the same goes for the rest; you don't hire the world's best chefs at McDonald's-- nor would they accept the wages paid and the lack of freedom in their craft.

[ 02-15-2011, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: The White Hand ]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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EDIT: Youtube got butthurt and nuked my video, so watch the version at the link below

[ 08-03-2011, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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Tuor
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My wife decided that she wanted to watch Fellowship again and I think of the three movies, it is PJ's best attempt.

In any case, I came to the conclusion that PJ's elves are based on Vulcans. True, Agent Smith isn't much of a Vulcan, but the basic Elves are very Vulcan like.

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Roll of Honor pi
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Hey Tuor,
quote:
of the three movies, it is PJ's best attempt.
I agree. There was still hope and potential.
From: Virgo Supercluster, 40º N 75º W | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Madomir
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quote:
I think of the three movies, it is PJ's best attempt.

Agreed, Fellowship didn't seem to wander as far from the original material as the rest. Once he got into the 2nd movie it became almost unrecognizable.

Btw, that last post by wiki/white hand is a gem. The final paragraph sums it up perfectly.

edit:
quote:
I find it odd that most people I speak to in real life about the movies if they have seen them all seem to love them,
This is the real tragedy of the movies, alot of folks accept them as canon. When viewed in that light they don't suck nearly as bad, which helps explain some peoples affection for them. I'd love to see a stat on this but my guess is that a great many movie lovers either never read the books at all or if they did it was so long ago that they forget the details. Pj's version filled the gaps for these folks and therefore became the story. I myself hadn't read the books in quite some time, saw Fellowship for the 1st time and accepted more than a few of the little changes as correct. I dove back into the trilogy almost immediately afterwards and was suprised at how much I had forgotten. I wasn't fooled by the obvious stuff like the omissions of Tom & Glorfindel but some of the more detail oriented stuff slipped right past me.

[ 07-30-2011, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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For the Fellowship Purist edit:

Step 1. Sign into youtube as "CitizenOfMinasTirith" (no quotes)
password "JRRTolkien"

Step 2. Click this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsuQUfkUaLg&list=PLB453B60C5FBBF422

That will play the Fellowship purist-edit so you can see it.

I think you'll agree it's a pretty powerful film once the errors are corrected.
(Edited to correct the password typo LOL)

[ 01-21-2012, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

From: The Island Previously Known as Numenor | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Numenorean Sword Trainer
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Madomir:
quote:
Agreed, Fellowship didn't seem to wander as far from the original material as the rest. Once he got into the 2nd movie it became almost unrecognizable.

That's even more obvious when trying to edit the films to establish accuracy. With Fellowship, it was possible to maintain some accuracy by omitting some things and re-editing others. Still, it was a herculean task, and I hope everyone takes a look at it. (And I started with Sharkey's "Purist" Edit; they did a fair job, but now I think it's complete).

But with TTT, I think it may be a lost cause; once Eomer is exiled, the film loses all coherence with the story; there's simply no way to put Eomer back at Edoras, or to return Eowyn her martyrdom. No way to remove all the other departures without re-making the entire film.

[ 08-01-2011, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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The difficulty with editing PJ's films from a purist's perspective is that while you might be able to adjust the plot somewhat and remove some of the most eggregious scenes and dialogue you simply cannot change the personalities and motivations of PJ's characters into the characters Tolkien created.

Great work, though. You did the best with what you had to work with, unlike PJ and the Wingnutters.

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Roll of Honor Athene
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[] [] []

Sorry to post where I actually have no opinion, I am just bombing the Active Topics Page and want my name on all the entries.
[]

[ 01-19-2012, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Athene ]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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Didn't you watch my edit of Fellowship? It's worth a look.
Unfortunately I had to give up after Fellowship, since TTT was just too distorted from the book beyond repair.

Dred Pirate Roberts:
quote:
The difficulty with editing PJ's films from a purist's perspective is that while you might be able to adjust the plot somewhat and remove some of the most eggregious scenes and dialogue you simply cannot change the personalities and motivations of PJ's characters into the characters Tolkien created.
True, but I think that if you saw my edit without ever having seen the original, then you'd say that it came very close to the book.
I can do that, because I "got even," so to speak, changing the parts I didn't like; for example I'm very proud of what I did with Elrond, putting him back in charge of the river, and making him non-misanthropic.
For a neutral viewer, however, it might be different since you didn't get your revenge like I did, and you would still be angry over the injury that PJ did to your favorite story and characters by taking unacceptable liberties and misinterpretations.

[ 01-21-2012, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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Mithrennaith
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NST,

YouTube, or rather Yahoo, is again blocking access to your purist edit, as anyone logging in as ‘CitizenOfMinasTirith’ from somewhere else as you gets asked security questions, to which we don’t know the answer.

[ 08-05-2012, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Mithrennaith ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?
'When either way may lead to evil, of what worth is choice? Let the Valar rule under Eru!
- Tar Meneldur [UT 2 II:173-174]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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I'll fix it.

[ 09-16-2012, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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Aiwrendel
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The link goes to an error message, “This video has been removed by the user.” I hope you can fix it.

I haven’t been in the city for a while and was going to read all 52 pages of this thread before responding (I’ll read them this weekend) but I can’t resist chiming in now.

When I heard the LOTR was going to be made into a movie I had horrible thoughts of the time I wasted going to the movies to see the animated version of The Hobbit. Brrrr! That experience still makes my skin crawl. I kept an open mind even though I knew PJ’s LOTR would suck compared to the REAL thing and went to see it with my wife. I gave her strict instructions to kick me in the ankle if I groaned loud enough for others to hear. (I may be cynical but I’m polite.) After the FOTR ended I asked her about my behavior and she said she heard several guttural sounds from me but thought them soft enough that no one else noticed (even when ARWEN showed up instead of Glorfindel!)

It was different when we watched TTT the first week it came to the movie theater. My ankle is still sore.

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