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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Lord of the Rings » Purist Rage - How the Films Betrayed Tolkien's Legacy (Page 50)
Author Topic: Purist Rage - How the Films Betrayed Tolkien's Legacy
The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Rob Inglis' version is the only one I know of that isn't a dramatization. Great stuff. Only one error that I've ever noticed.
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Hamfast Gamgee
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One thing I do have to say is that the last film at the end was mucked up a bit! The reasons for the last attack on Mordor wasn't really explained too well, or totally changed! I didn't mind too much at the time, I was probably then waiting for it to end after all that fighting in Minas Tirith, but now looking back, it could have been done better!
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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But Captain Obvious told us it was "A Diversion."
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Tigranes
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It's been quiet here lately. I wonder...


There is one point which I haven't really seen addressed. It is that New Zealand is an unsuitable place for filming Tolkien's books for a lot more reasons than have been listed here by the Witch-King and others:


- Light&Climate

Every part of this world has its unique atmosphere and feeling. It is not only the direction from which the sun shines, it is also a matter of climate, geographical location, temperature, vegetation and fauna. It is a combination of colours, shapes, sounds, smells, light and shadow etc..
New Zealand is vastly different from Great Britain which is closest to what the movie-relevant parts of Middle-Earth should be like.


- Species

In LotR, there are many species that are common for Europe or even indigenous to it. An unusual amount of names (for a work of narrative fiction) is given by Tolkien. Apart from many European trees and weeds (such as Oak, Ash, Rowan, Birch, Beech etc. pp.) there are:

Thrush (mentioned in the "Hobbit"). From its behaviour we can deduce that it is indeed a Song Thrush (Turdus philomelos) or at least a close relative.

Kingfisher (mentioned in "The Forbidden Pool", The Two Towers): Again, from the implied behaviour of it, we can conclude that it is a water-loving member of the family, such as the European Kingfisher (Alcedo atthis). Given the fact that Tolkien didn't really visit foreign continents after his early childhood, this species is the most likely candidate to turn up in his novels.

Squirrel (same chapter and sentence as Kingfisher): Ever heard of a squirrel native to New Zealand? Hell, they didn't even have "Possums" before the English devastated the country.

Fox (mentioned in "Three is company", The Fellowship of the Ring). See Squirrel.

And many more that I cannot exactly remember right now. The point is: None of these species is native to New Zealand and they would just look terribly out of place there.

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Roll of Honor pi
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Ah, the fox. A "The Hobbit"-ish character, before the full transition to the LOTR characterization writing style:
quote:
A few creatures came and looked at them when the fire had died away. A fox passing through the wood on business of his own stopped several minutes and sniffed.
'Hobbits!' he thought. 'Well, what next? I have heard of strange doings in this land, but I have seldom heard of a hobbit sleeping out of doors under a tree. Three of them! There's something mighty queer behind this.' He was quite right, but he never found out any more about it.


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Roll of Honor Athene
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Very true, Tigranes. However, as has been pointed out elsewhere, there isn't a whole lot of Britain that is still as lovely as Tolkien's vision of it it described. I am very familiar with both Oxfordshire and south Birmingham, parts of the UK that Tolkien knew well. Pretty sure he didn't envisage the Shire with the M40 motorway running through the middle of it. []
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Tigranes
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quote:
Ah, the fox. A "The Hobbit"-ish character, before the full transition to the LOTR characterization writing style:
Good point [] . I always found that funny as well.


quote:
Very true, Tigranes. However, as has been pointed out elsewhere, there isn't a whole lot of Britain that is still as lovely as Tolkien's vision of it it described. I am very familiar with both Oxfordshire and south Birmingham, parts of the UK that Tolkien knew well. Pretty sure he didn't envisage the Shire with the M40 motorway running through the middle of it.
Aye, that is true [] . However, I have seen other places in France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and even freakin' China that could be used as LotR settings, and often spontaneously reminded me of Middle-Earth. And don't forget that there are Russia and other eastern and middle European countries that do have a lot of suitable places.
Btw, did you know that in central China there is actually a lake called Mirrormere? Its location is even somewhat similar to the one in the Misty Mountains, albeit it is smaller and in a wooded area.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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quote:
I have also paid my respects at Tolkien's grave near Oxford, England.

That's more than I've done actually. And I don't live that far away. I've often liked to go to Oxford too! I'll put that on the to do list after Christmas.
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Roll of Honor pi
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If you make it there, please give my respects to Beren and Luthien for me as well? Someday I'll get there...
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Inc'
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quote:
I have also paid my respects at Tolkien's grave near Oxford, England.
I did it too []
Their tombstone, and the graveyard in general, are beeautiful []
* [] graveyards*

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Roll of Honor Athene
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[] As someone who drives past it on a regular basis, you can pretty much guarantee that any MTer who comes to stay with me is going to get bullocked into going. []

I'm very ashamed to say that I left my sunglasses there on one visit ( [] [] [] [] ).

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Roll of Honor Aikanáro
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quote:
being able to write in Tengwar (ask Aika)
Yes, I can confirm that Amá is pretty much a Tengwar prodigy. [] Picked it up amazingly fast.

I have seen the EE 'appendices,' so I know why PJ wanted to change Faramir. Knowing the reasoning doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with it, though.

That said, I'm very fond of the movies overall.

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Aina Moja
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I agree with Aikanáro: I enjoy the films and I have watched all the Appendices but I do not quite agree with why Faramir's role was changed. Faramir ( [] ) has always been my favorite character in LOTR, and it was certainly quite upsetting the first time I saw TTT and the changes that had taken place. Watching the EEs of TTT and ROTK make it bearable, however. If there was no Houses of Healing scene, I would have blown my top, for serial. []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
They miss the whisper that runs any day in your mind,
“Who are you really, wanderer?”—
and the answer you have to give no matter how dark
and cold the world around you is: “Maybe I'm a king.”
William Stafford

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Tigranes
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quote:
* [] graveyards*
Ah, those morbid French... []


Well, I have watched the Appendixes to a certain extent (can't exactly remember what I didn't see). While I appreciate the hard work some people invested into these films, I still don't see the reason for any of those additional scenes that utterly failed to add "some depth" to this and that character.
Why would it make sense to turn poor Faramir into a morally weak a**hole and his daddy Denethor into a deranged version of the President from Friedrich Schillers "Intrigue and Love"? It only helps to add some unwarranted, lengthy and embarassing scenes to the movie.
I thought Tolkien made it abundantly clear that Faramir is not only strong, highly educated, and intelligent like his brother, but also has wisdom and very strong moral principles. But Peter Jackson came with a better idea. Or so he thought.

[ 12-07-2008, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Inc'
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quote:
Ah, those morbid French...
[] How do you know that ? []
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Tigranes
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Well, it's on your profile. And I have been lurking around here for some time (unluckily, I decided to join too late to be able to have some enlightened conversations with the illustrous Witch-King [] ).

[ 12-07-2008, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Inc'
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quote:
Well, it's on your profile.
[] You went to see my profile.

Oh, the e-mail address, right ? [] Right on, Holmes []

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Artaresto
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Anyway, he/she (?) is still right about the French. []
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Roll of Honor Thangail
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Actually, if they had filmed it in the UK and used the M40, at least I wouldn't have had to sit through 9 hours of crap as (barring an accident) they could've been at Mount Doom in an hour.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
if they had filmed it in the UK and used the M40,
[...]
they could've been at Mount Doom in an hour.

Is that where the M40 ends? []

[ 12-07-2008, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Varnafindë ]

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Roll of Honor Thangail
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Yeah, it's called London.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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[]
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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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I love graveyards too...When I was grasping for silver lining as my grandmother died I thought "Well, at least I'll get to visit graveyards..." But then my family buried her an hour and a half away []

All the ones around me just have plaques. No stones, no statues, a bunch of blocks in the ground.

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Roll of Honor Athene
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quote:
they could've been at Mount Doom in an hour
Yep, and instead of being waylaid by Faramir and his men for a bit of R&R, they could have stopped off at Cherwell Valley Services for a fry-up. []
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Istie
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I don't like how they shortened Galadriel and Celeborn's roles. Ever since I read LOTR and The Silmarillion, they have been two of my favorite characters. But that's really my only complaint.And at least there are some deleted scenes with them. []

[ 02-16-2009, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Istie ]

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Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Lord of the Rings » Purist Rage - How the Films Betrayed Tolkien's Legacy (Page 50)
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