Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
 
Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » Researching Cor Blok
Author Topic: Researching Cor Blok
TolkienLibrary
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5560
posted      Profile for TolkienLibrary   Author's Homepage   Email TolkienLibrary   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
As you all noticed Tolkien Calendar 2011 will feature the art by Cor Blok. Hope you all like it. In Tolkien illustration this probably about the complete other end compared to the works we have seen the last several years (Alan Lee, John Howe, Ted Nasmith,...) - still I hope Cor Blok's art can be appreciated by many. I would describe his art as wonderfully odd, but incredible fascinating.

At the moment I'm doing a lot of research on the art of Cor Blok and wanted to see if there are any members here that could help me out a little.

For example, who attended the SF convention in Eindhoven, The Netherlands, in November 1994? Who bought the Cor Blok paintings that were on display there (n° 18, 19 and 20) or took pictures of them? The convention was called Hillcon V and Seal-Con... all info is welcome! In fact, all info on Cor Blok's paintings is more then welcome!

Does have anyone have more info on the exhibition (and selling) of Cor Blok's art on SF conventions in the 90's? It is quit important to find correct info about this to really understand how his paintings were put on the market and got dispersed. At the moment I'm especially trying to locate all current owners of his paintings.

I'm especially looking for info on the following paintings:
Isengard
Ephel Dúath
Sam attacks Shelob
The game of riddles
Weathertop
The Last Bridge
Minas Morgul

All help is very welcome!

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
'It is fulfilled. Even now a Silmaril is in my hand.' - [color=#0080FF]tolkienlibrary.com[/color]

From: Lost in Wilderland | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tigranes
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 9076
posted      Profile for Tigranes   Email Tigranes   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Is that one by him? It looks retarded...

 -

[ 09-14-2010, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

From: anywhere | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TolkienLibrary
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5560
posted      Profile for TolkienLibrary   Author's Homepage   Email TolkienLibrary   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yes this is a Cor Blok painting. And me personally I LOVE it!
I'm not going to discuss taste, but it is not nice to call something you don't like "retarded"...
Yes it is "different" and it is "minimalistic"... and in fact Tolkien did like this style a lot and actually bought two of Cor Blok's paintings. So far the only art we know he actually bought. Anyways,... thought people who liked Tolkien books had an open mind and were polite... guess I must have been wrong.

From: Lost in Wilderland | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tigranes
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 9076
posted      Profile for Tigranes   Email Tigranes   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Nah I'm just not into "modern art". I don't see the use of this style, or its artistic value (if it's any comfort to you, I'm not a fan of Ted Nasmith's either). If Tolkien liked it, good for him. I don't have to share every taste of his. I know plenty of reasonable and educated people who like retarded paintings.


quote:
but it is not nice to call something you don't like "retarded"...
Like I said, it's not only a matter of taste. With all the technical possibilities, as well as cultural history, at hand, we don't have to produce art that is markedly less sophisticated than the rock paintings of Cro Magnon people or ancient Bushmen.


quote:
Yes it is "different" and it is "minimalistic"
To hell with "different". That's just a meaningless PC term. Why should a grown man paint like a six year old child?
Also, this "open mind" phrase. Another meaningless and insulting rhetorical device to paint anybody who deviates from mainstream taste as an ignorant hillbilly. As a Westerner who focuses on Middle-Eastern issues, I have to be open-minded. That doesn't mean I tolerate nonsense.

That said, I'll avoid spamming your thread any further. I haven't really found any other pictures of this artist, but perhaps others can help.

[ 09-14-2010, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

From: anywhere | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TolkienLibrary
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5560
posted      Profile for TolkienLibrary   Author's Homepage   Email TolkienLibrary   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
While no one is replying to aid the research (for now) I'm happy to discuss with you. I start to follow what you are telling.

First of all, this art was created over 50 years ago... maybe important point to situate this art. I don't believe that today any person would create art like this / even not the artist who is still alive today. But is no reason to call it retarded and certainly not a reason why you could not enjoy it today.

The artwork was created by someone who later became a very well respected professor in art and in fact knows more about the language of art then the average person. I can't accept to classify this under 'nonsense' - I don't see the need for a black/white attitude.

The art style and language is in fact very sophisticated ( this is not art that was created by a kid or a monkey) - no this was a deliberate exercise and a very successful one. Would you also claim the Bayeux tapestry, which is the inspiration for this art, as nonsense?

I'm happy to see you compare with the rock paintings of Cro Magnon people. This is a good idea. These paintings were made by extremely artistic people and they are in fact extremely high quality in drawing. Try it... same counts for the art by Cor Blok. So thanks for brining it up. Since that is indeed a good comparison.

From: Lost in Wilderland | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mithrennaith
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5239
posted      Profile for Mithrennaith   Author's Homepage   Email Mithrennaith   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Also, this "open mind" phrase. Another meaningless and insulting rhetorical device to paint anybody who deviates from mainstream taste as an ignorant hillbilly.
Tigranes, I’m afraid you describe your own behavior here very well. Maybe where you come from, ‘retarded’ is just a mild swear word - even though I don’t see why swear words should be called for in this topic. Where TolkienLibary, Cor Blok and I come from, though we have similar ‘mild’ swear words, ‘retarded’ is a very heavy insult. It goes even beyond implying that prof. Blok, whose art was not mainstream when he made it and is not mainstream now and certainly could not have been made by a six year old child, is an ignorant hillbilly.

Now you may very well just have misjudged the impact you words might have. But when you’re politely suggested your choice of words was inappropriate, you continue in the same vein. Moreover, you suggest that you yourself are being insulted here. As rhetorical devices come, that is a rather low one.

quote:
As a Westerner who focuses on Middle-Eastern issues, I have to be open-minded. That doesn't mean I tolerate nonsense.
By which (‘nonsense’) I'm afraid you’re only betraying your ignorance of this subject. And with the background you give, you should know better than to behave in this way. I am no friend of political correctness and certainly no enemy of forthrightness, but I don’t tolerate boorishness.

[ 09-14-2010, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Mithrennaith ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?
'When either way may lead to evil, of what worth is choice? Let the Valar rule under Eru!
- Tar Meneldur [UT 2 II:173-174]

From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tigranes
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 9076
posted      Profile for Tigranes   Email Tigranes   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
First of all, this art was created over 50 years ago... maybe important point to situate this art. I don't believe that today any person would create art like this / even not the artist who is still alive today.
Why should that be relevant? Art that isn't understood beyond its particular time frame may as well be considered no art. Like most pop songs, for example.


quote:
But is no reason to call it retarded and certainly not a reason why you could not enjoy it today.
Well I'm happy that you and some others enjoy it. I don't.


quote:
The artwork was created by someone who later became a very well respected professor in art and in fact knows more about the language of art then the average person.
Picasso was a great painter, although he became famous for his ugly nonsense pictures, not the others.
I'm not doubting Cor Blok'as professionalism or talent. I'm just saying his style is a waste of his talent.


quote:
I can't accept to classify this under 'nonsense' - I don't see the need for a black/white attitude.
I do. To paraphrase Oscar Peterson (IIRC) - There's only two kinds of music: good music and bad music. Same accounts for other arts. Sorry for my harsh attitude, but I'm allergic to relativism and over-interpretation.


quote:
The art style and language is in fact very sophisticated ( this is not art that was created by a kid or a monkey) - no this was a deliberate exercise and a very successful one.
I think it's conceited. Of course it was deliberate. I sometimes deliberately do things that can objectively be considered stupid. Hence, "deliberate" doesn't really indicate quality.


quote:
Would you also claim the Bayeux tapestry, which is the inspiration for this art, as nonsense?
The Bayeux tapestry, apart from being a tapestry, was created with the means and ideology of its time. Back then, people were more on the expressionist side. But I'm sure they would have been happy had they been able to work realistically without much greater expense.


quote:
I'm happy to see you compare with the rock paintings of Cro Magnon people. This is a good idea. These paintings were made by extremely artistic people and they are in fact extremely high quality in drawing.
That's the point. People back then were able to create artwork that made more sense than the self-deluded ways of modern artists.


quote:
Tigranes, I’m afraid you describe your own behavior here very well.
I haven't really described anything.


quote:
Maybe where you come from, ‘retarded’ is just a mild swear word - even though I don’t see why swear words should be called for in this topic.
Where TolkienLibary, Cor Blok and I come from, though we have similar ‘mild’ swear words, ‘retarded’ is a very heavy insult.

Well luckily the language of this forum is English, not Dutch.


quote:
It goes even beyond implying that prof. Blok, whose art was not mainstream when he made it and is not mainstream now and certainly could not have been made by a six year old child, is an ignorant hillbilly.
1) I didn't imply him to be anything. I said he painted in a stupid style. That doesn't imply much about his character, does it. Especially as I added the information that intelligent people can like (or produce) this kind of "art".
2) Oh yes, this kind of art is mainstream. There is a social class of people who pretend to understand it, because modern art is considered kewl among people who consider themselves as intellectual. I'm not saying that it is liked by lower class people. But these usually do not dictate what mainstream is.
3) This style looks exactly like a fake "children" style. I don't know why people choose to paint like this, even though they have talent for more. I could reproduce these paintings, and I'm not really a particularly good painter.


quote:
By which (‘nonsense’) I'm afraid you’re only betraying your ignorance of this subject.
What angers me is the retarded accusation of ignorance. I've been lucky enough to have been given a thorough education in many arts, including tips on how to make sense of "modern art". I chose not to like some styles even though I comprehend them. No actually because I comprehend them. The guy we are discussing is better than some in that he at least uses matching colours and all that, but still.
When you deal with artist and art, for example architecture, it becomes increasingly easy for you to see through the pretentious way many artists and their fans have, as well as their hollow phrases.


quote:
I am no friend of political correctness and certainly no enemy of forthrightness,
That's good to hear.


quote:
but I don’t tolerate boorishness.
Calling strange people "ignorant" is boorish. I, on the other hand, only judged the picture I saw.

[ 09-15-2010, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

From: anywhere | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mithrennaith
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5239
posted      Profile for Mithrennaith   Author's Homepage   Email Mithrennaith   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
No.

You only judged your own aesthetic reaction to the picture. You did not even judge its technical qualities, even only in sofar as they are visible in the digital reproduction. You then concluded from your own dislike of the picture, or of its style and genre, that it is no good and that those who do think it is are pretentious, as well as its artist.

In that, you make the same mistake as Edmund Wilson and other critics, who disliked The Lord of the Rings, and its style and genre, and on that basis concluded that it wasn’t any good, nobody ought to think it was any good, and those who did think so somehow lacked proper literary taste.

Except that you don’t bring in the taste of those who like this sort of art, you simply call them pretentious.

The error you thus have in common with Edmund Wilson c.s. is that you promote your own subjective judgement to objective, and try to disparage (and provoke) those who do not agree.

As to ignorance, someone who knows art and its craft, technically and historically and quite apart from likes or dislikes, would know that a six year old child couldn’t make this, and that it refers to several historical (western and non-western) styles. (And, I should point out, I don’t have any specialist knowledge here either, but I know what I have heard from artists of many different styles, and from people who have, for instance, compared Pauline Baynes art with medieval and oriental styles.)

Nevertheless you continue the tactic of accusing those who disagree with you of the errors of your own ways. That’s what makes it difficult for me to accept your behavior in this discussion.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?
'When either way may lead to evil, of what worth is choice? Let the Valar rule under Eru!
- Tar Meneldur [UT 2 II:173-174]

From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » Researching Cor Blok
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1