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Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » The Children of Hurin (Page 4)
Author Topic: The Children of Hurin
Roll of Honor Thorin
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Has anyone sat down with all the texts yet to see what exactly Christopher has done, taking specific passages from other previously-published tests?
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Olofántur
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Looks like almost everything comes in majority from UT (including the appendix to the Narn for the sequence Amon Rûdh-Nargothrond) and yet unpublished texts. Moreover, the account of Nirnaeth Arnoediad was published as Note 2 at the end of the Grey Annals (HoMe XI), and Christopher talks about the passage with Húrin and Huor in Gondolin in Note 3 to the same Annals.

[ 05-06-2007, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Olofántur ]

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Eluchil
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Hiiiii !!! []
Here is the one who linked me to MT []

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Roll of Honor Athene
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Saw in bookshop today.
[]
Must.... not... buy in... hardback....
Nnnnngh!
[]

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Olofántur
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BTW, I'd like to know what someone who has read LotR, but not the Silm (i.e. the audience CoH aimed at, according to Christopher), thinks of the Introduction of the book...
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Inc'
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I bought it in New York for 20$, which is way less that it would have been for me in Paris !! []
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Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
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Okay, so, who's actually read it? I'm about half way through.

Rather light reading, but a bit disturbing in some ways.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Marcho Blackwood, MSS - #16 Brookshade Close - Bindbale, North Farthing, The Shire
1st Winner Mahanaxar's Boy Howdy of Approval with 2 Bronze Stars (3rd Award) & Balrog Cluster with Laurel.
King of Grammar with Queen SSA
Sass this hoopy hobbit frood who really knows where his towel is!

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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Took me a while to get a copy via Amazon. My guess was that there were a lot of order for it. I'm going to begin reading the book tomorrow on the train. []
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Eluchil
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Thorin read it, I did it too, but I don't remember who else.
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Inc'
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I read it too in a week when I was in New York []

[ 06-20-2007, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Inc' ]

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Hamfast Gamgee
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I've read bits of it, but not the whole thing, just yet.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I found it went VERY quickly. Read it a couple days after it was released. I like having it in a separate volume. I hope it is successful enough that the estate is motivated to do something similar with the other two great tales, Gondolin and Beren & Luthien.

That it is mostly a rehash of already published writings doesn't bother me in the least. It's worth the $15 for the artwork alone.

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Galin
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The Estate could do 'something' but (sadly) the other of the Great Tales are different animals.

When The Lord of the Rings proper was 'finished' but not published Tolkien began a prose saga of Beren and Lúthien. Christopher describes it as a 'substantial' text, though the story goes no further than the betrayal by Dairon to Thingol of Beren's presence in Doriath.

The 'Later Tuor' (revised Fall of Gondolin, likely dating about 1951), was abandoned at Tuor's arrival in Gondolin.

Fuller accounts exist in The Book of Lost Tales but these are quite early tales as we know, and were different in style and etc. In the following Christopher is generally describing the early Fall of Gondolin for example...

'It is written in the extreme archaistic style that my father employed at that time, and it inevitably embodies conceptions out of keeping with the world of The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion in its published form.' Introduction, Of Tuor And His Coming To Gondolin

So Christopher felt he had enough to work with with respect to the 'later long version' of the Túrin tale.

[ 06-20-2007, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Galin ]

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I'd take a BoLT, UT, Silm amalgam of Tuor and The Fall of Gondolin any time. Unedited is fine as far as I'm concerned. Just cram it all together, get some more great artwork from Alan Lee or another of the Big Three, and you've got my $15.
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Olofántur
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Adam Tolkien has said (here) that CoH-likes for the tales of Beren and Tuor are very unlikely to be published.
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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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(If you scroll down, you'll find an English translation of the interview.)

It seems as if the door is open, however, for more completed tales:
quote:
Alejandro Serrano: It would be a dream for all. ¿but this publication opens the door to other books, for example only about 'The Fall of Gondolin', 'Beren and Lúthien' or the 'Song of Leithian'?

Adam Tolkien: There has been some talk on this subject, the problem being that J.R.R. Tolkien never rewrote these tales as extensively as the The Children of Hurin, so there is less material to work on, and it would be more difficult to produce a worthwhile volume. It is not totally unthinkable, but no more than that!

I would love a full telling of Gondolin, which is probably my favorite story from the Elder Days...

Thanks for the link! []

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Hamfast Gamgee
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Okay, I've finally read this after my Hols, so I thought I would say a few words. Now a few things are interesting. No-one told me about Turin's girlfriend Nellas, for example, I wonder why Tolkien left her out in the original draft? The Searos-Turin quarrel is also worth debate. One wonders why Tolkien decided to create an Elf with flaws such as Saeros? And was Turin's judgement upon him justified? It seems that the narrator of the tale and the Elfs of Doriath think so, but I wonder? Or maybe the will of Feanor had links with Doriath?

It was also curious reading about Turin's relationships with the outlaws of Beleriand. Some of them sound a little like Pirates. But I did notice that they used the word Fellowship to describe their Union. Can't but help but think that it a sharp contrast between that Fellowship and the Fellowship of the Ring written much later!

But the more one reads, the more gets the felling about the tragic nature of the tale. It seems that everyone Turin meets comes to some sad end. He is the only one to survive out of his band of outlaws, he is one of the few that live out of Nargothrond, he is the only one that survives out of the encounter with Glaurung. He must have thought sometimes that why is it that only Turin survives these things.

But overall a very interesting tale. In fact, I think that I will give it a re-read at work. It must be better than day-time TV for sure!

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Eluchil
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quote:
Okay, I've finally read this after my Hols, so I thought I would say a few words. Now a few things are interesting. No-one told me about Turin's girlfriend Nellas, for example, I wonder why Tolkien left her out in the original draft? The Searos-Turin quarrel is also worth debate. One wonders why Tolkien decided to create an Elf with flaws such as Saeros? And was Turin's judgement upon him justified? It seems that the narrator of the tale and the Elfs of Doriath think so, but I wonder? Or maybe the will of Feanor had links with Doriath?
Both Nellas and Saeros are in UT []
The "original writer" of the tale is Dírhaval, a Man (see HoMe XI).
And the Fëanorian stuff is only getting intertwined with Doriath when Thingol receives the Silmaril. The "rest" is linked to the curse of Morgoth.

quote:
It seems that everyone Turin meets comes to some sad end. He is the only one to survive out of his band of outlaws, he is one of the few that live out of Nargothrond, he is the only one that survives out of the encounter with Glaurung. He must have thought sometimes that why is it that only Turin survives these things.
Yep, the curse. I really like the way Tolkien treats it - what a pity Christopher didn't succeed to incorporate it in the Silmarillion []
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Oh, so Nellas was in UT was she? I must have missed her. Ah, yes the curse! One wonders how much Turin was aware of it at least before the coming of Glauring.

[ 10-22-2007, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Hamfast Gamgee ]

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Snöwdog
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In retrospect, I like Children of Hurin better than The Silmarillion. Reads more as a book, whereas Sil is more a reference manual.
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Gollum Gollum
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Having read UT and Silm., I was a bit disappointed when I read CoH. I had the feeling that there was nothing new in it (of course, there must have been something, but I didn't know what) and that it was just a waste of money.
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Hamfast Gamgee
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I think that there was some original material in the middle chapters, but not very much! Oh, and there was something about some river that was flowing west in the original Silm but Tolkien actually said it was flowing east. How much this matters......
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Snöwdog
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Yeah that was the problem. Had CT held back with all the bits in the Sil, Unfinished Tales, etc. The Children of Hurin would have been the best presentation. But he had already burnt the 'new material' bridge.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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I still found it was a better read, if for no other reason than that it wasn't broken up by comments all the time. The discussions followed at the end, and you could read them or skip them as you'd prefer.

I usually skip the whole Turin section of Unfinished Tales, because it's so sad and depressing - this version I was actually able to finish. No less sad, I guess - but something about the presentation.

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Snöwdog
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And this book actually calls me to give it a re read!
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