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Author Topic: Names in your language
Tar-Aldarion
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In evry country wich lotr has been translated there is of course some change in the names in norway some is like this
Bilbo\Frodo Baggins-Bilbo\Frodo Lommelun
Samwise gamgee- Samvis Gamgod(sam)
Peregrin took-Peregrin Tok (Pippin, pip)
Merryadock Brandybuck- Muntiadock Brennibukk(Munti)
Gandalf grey- Gandalv grå
Aragorn,elfstone - Aragorn alvestein
Smyagol - smeagol
etc....

what are the names in your languages?
Would be cool to know?
Write the other names that is changed too....

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest.

— Fëanor, from the Quenta Silmarillion.

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Roll of Honor Thorin
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Well, I’m American but I live in Finland. So I can come up with some Finnish LOTR names.

Baggins – Reppuli
Gollum – Klonkku
Brandybucks - Rankkibukit
Samwise Gamgee – Samvais Gamgi
Strider – Konkari

Some of the changes are more for pronunciation reasons. Finnish is a phonetic language.
Merry – Meri
Took – Tuk

Others were for rhyming.
Grubbs and Chubbs – Tonkeleita and Pönkeleita

I’m not being totally consistent, as some of these are in the nominative and some in the partitive, but you get the picture.

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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These are great translated names! [] [] I think this one is even better than the original:
quote:
Merryadock Brandybuck- Muntiadock Brennibukk(Munti)
OT: Thorin, is this name Rankkibukit using the Finnish word for brandy (rankki), as in the drink? It's remarkably similar to the Turkic word raki (rakija, etc.) which, as adopted by Romanian and some South Slavic languages, stands for any distilled drink. (I know Turkish and Finnish are descended from the same language group.) AFAIK, the Turkish raki is anise liquor, like the Greek ouzo and the Italian anisette...
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Mithrennaith
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Well, let me give the Dutch translations of the names already mentioned in the previous posts:

Bilbo&Frodo Baggins - Bilbo&Frodo Balings ('baal' is a very large sack or bag - in Dutch adding the suffix in this case makes one a drop without change in pronunciation)
Samwise Gamgee - Sam Gewissies (the full first name Samwise is never translated)
Peregrin (Pippin) Took - Peregrijn (Pepijn) Toek ('Toek' is simply the Dutch spelling of the same pronunciation)
Meriadoc (Merry) Brandybuck - Meriadoc (Merijn) Brandebok ('bok'='buck, 'brandy' becomes 'brandewijn' in Dutch, hence 'Brandywine River' is translated as 'Brandewijnrivier')
Gandalf the Grey - Gandalf de Grijze
Aragorn Elfstone - Aragorn Elfensteen
Sméagol remains unchanged of course (since it is Anglo-saxon, like Gandalf, Old Norse and Aragorn, Sindarin)
Gollum - Gollem
Strider - Stapper
Chubb - Meun (translating the name of the fish)
Grubb - Graft (translating the sense of 'digging', but later the same translator translated it 'Moll', meaning 'Mole', probably to alliterate with Meun, in stead of rhyming).

Somewhere, I've got a list of about 900 translated names or terms.

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Roll of Honor Thorin
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Finnish is a crazy, non-Indo European language. It's group is called Finno-Ugric. It's related to Estonian and some languages in N-W Russia. It is also far removed from Hungarian.

I just asked my Finnish secretary about rankki and she has never heard of it! But a dictionary we found says that it is "distiller's grain, draff." (Obviously not common in vocabulary!) Brandy or cognac is normally called konjakki.

Now I'm in the mood to pull out that essay Tolkien wrote about translations!

Edit: One of the advisers here knew of rankki. He confirmed that it is grain used to make liqours. He also said that it is the name of some small place close to Russia. So that works very well with Brandybuck - it has the connection to a liqour and a place, just like "brandy" and "Buckland."

[ 04-04-2006, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Thorin ]

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Tar-Aldarion
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quote:
i also think that muntiadok or munti is a much better name than merryadock
strider is vidvandre in norway wich i think is a crappy translate

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest.

— Fëanor, from the Quenta Silmarillion.

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Thingol of Doriath
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quote:
Edit: One of the advisers here knew of rankki. He confirmed that it is grain used to make liqours. He also said that it is the name of some small place close to Russia. So that works very well with Brandybuck - it has the connection to a liqour and a place, just like "brandy" and "Buckland."

You know Thorin- I'm sure you have risen ten-fold in the esteem of your Finnish colleagues.... asking about the word grain alcohol. I bet that they are impressed! []

Swedish names are a bit of a controversy... Tolkien disliked the translation of names done in the original Swedish version, and disliked the translator(Åke Ohlmark) even more it would seem. See Letters #204, #228 and #229.

In 2004 a new translation was done by Erik Andersson. Here are some of the changes:

English / Original translation / 2004 translation
Frodo Baggins / Frodo Bagger / Frodo Secker
Bilbo Baggins / Bilbo Bagger / Bilbo Secker
Meriadoc Brandybuck / Meriadoc Vinbock / Meriadoc Brännbock
The Gaffer / Gubbtjuven (Ham Gamgi) / Gammelfar (Ham Gamgi)
Fatty Bolger / Fatty Bolger / Bullen Bolger
Barliman Butterbur / Barliman Smörblomma / Malte Smörblom
Hal / Hall / Stig
Ted Sandyman / Tedd Sandiman / Teodor Sandeman
Goldberry / Hjortrongull / Gyllenbär
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins / Lobelia Säcksta-Bagger / Lobelia Kofferdi-Secker
Hobbiton / Hobsala / Hobbinge
Rivendell / Vattnadal / Riftedal
Tuckborough / Tookköping / Tockborga
Brandy Hall / Vintuna / Brännstaholm
Bywater / Sjöstorp / Åby
Bagshot Row / Baggerspjutsvägen / Säckfallsgatan
Brandywine River / Vinfloden / Brännevinsfloden
Dunharrow / Dune Harv / Dunharg

[] I love some of the translations... the original translation for The Gaffer is "old man thief" [] while the new one is "old father". []

The original translation of Goldberry is "cloud berry yellow" while the new one is "golden berry".

This is a cloud berry:  -

[ 04-04-2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Thingol of Doriath ]

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Tar-Aldarion
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som of the translations was good, but too bee honest i think most of them were pretty ****ty.
and that åke guy what the hell was he thinking about?
did he know anything about tolkien work when he translated it.(when was it)
the new one is better but still....


The norwegian translate i think is much better her are some more:
Rivendell-kløvendal
dunharrow-dunhov
hobiton-hobbitun
brandywine river- brennvina
bagshot row- lommelia
sackville-idelpung
the gaffer-gammelen\ramfast
strider-vidvandre
goldberry-marigull
mirkwood-myrkskog
treebeard-treskjegg
wormtounge-ormtunge

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest.

— Fëanor, from the Quenta Silmarillion.

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Tar-Aldarion
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Some of these is bad but i think the most of it is ok


by the way...
i hate german but the translations was pretty good

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest.

— Fëanor, from the Quenta Silmarillion.

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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I'd be interested to see what translations Earendilyon has used for his Latin translation... []
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Earendilyon
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Dominus Anulorum, link on the left: Nomina. (Inscriptiones has a list of the Chapter Titles translated.)

[ 04-05-2006, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Earendilyon ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me."

John 3:16-21

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Telperion
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The names in the Hebrew translation are as close as possible to the original. The idea was to try to distant the translation as much as possible from the Jewish mythology, because it is completely different than the myth Tolkien intended to link his works to.
This is specifically true for the 2nd translation by Dr. Lotem.

One of the strangest deviations from the original text is the translation of the book's name:

The Lord of the Rings was translated as "Minister of the rings (Sar Hatabaot).
Here it is on the new 2004 paperback:
 -

e: Spelling...

[ 04-08-2006, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: Telperion ]

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Dís Thrain's Daughter
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Polish

"The Lord of the Rings" is translated as "Włądca Pierścieni" (Wladca Pierscieni - if you cannot see Polish characters), which would be a literal translation of "the ruler of the rings".

In the most popular translation by Skibniewska most names are left original, but there are some exceptions:

- most female names not ending with "a" have "a" added, so we have: Galadriela, Arwena, Eowyna, Meliana, Haletha etc. Some female names are left original: e.g. Luthien, Ioreth, Dís.
Rose Cotton is translated into Różyczka (rosy or little rose, but also a Polish female name). Last name is left original.
Goldberry is Złota Jagoda (Zlota Jagoda) - literal translation.
Strider is Obieżyświat (Obiezyswiat)
Wormtongue is Smoczy Język (Jezyk) - Dragon's Tongue or Gadzi Język )Reptile's Tongue

There was an attempt to make more traslations (translator was Lozinski), and some neologisms appeared in his translation. Most of them were not Polish words, but corrupted original made sound or look more "Polish". For example Baggins became Bagosz and Mnas Tirith - Minas Tirit. This idea was not accepted well among the readers so in his new translation he came back to original names.

[ 04-09-2006, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Dís Thrain's Daughter ]

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Master of Fate
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Actually, Tar Aldarion, I find the earlier Tolkien translation to Norwegian to be better. I mean, take the name Baggins.
Now in norwegian, we have a perfectly good translation of the word bag: sekk. Hence translating Baggins with Sekker would seem natural, no ? Instead the new translation seems to think that Bag = pocket which translates to lomme. If you ask me, theres a difference between a bag and a pocket. Where the last part of the name came from, I really dont know. Lommelun is just a silly name, thought up to make Hobbits even more child friendly (which they dont need to be, really).

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Roll of Honor Lassë
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Silm:
quote:
I know Turkish and Finnish are descended from the same language group
They are? I am pretty sure that Finnish is Uralic and Turkish is Altaric []

Thorin:
quote:
Finnish is a phonetic language
As opposed to... sign language? []
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Roll of Honor Thorin
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[] I mean that in Finnish, each letter has only one sound and each sound has only one letter. Unlike English, for instance, where we can have a sentence like "I love igloos" where the "i" sound is different in each instance. By the way, nice to see you back, Lasse.
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Eluchil
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Let's start with French :

Lord of the Rings = Seigneur des Anneaux (direct translation)
Bilbo / Frodo Baggins = Bilbon / Frodon Sacquet (sac = bag)
Saruman = Saroumane (phonetic)
The Shire = La Comté (direct translation)
Wormtongue = Langue de serpent (translation, though serpent = snake)
Mirkwood = Forêt Noire (don't ask me why [] )
Samwise Gamegie = Samsagace Gamegie (sagace = +/- wise)
Took = Touque (phonetic)
Brandybuck = Brandebouc (+/- phonetic)
Strider = Grand-Pas (+/- translation)
Goldberry = Baie d'Or (translation)
Rivendel = Fondcombe (translation if I remember correctly)
Brandywine = Brandevin (+/- phonetic)
Treebeard = Sylvebarbe (+/- translation)

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Captain of Gondor
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I would do German, but I don't know THAT much. []
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Arien the Maia
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In greek the original names were keapt phoneticaly.

Let's see what wasn't.
Goldberry -> Chrisomouria (accurate translation of Goden berry) and the suffix indicates a female plant.

Treebeard -> Dendrogenis (accurate translation of tree beard)

Barrow Downs -> Tholoti Tafi ton Nekron. That translates, freely into "arched graves of the dead".

Rivendeil -> Skisto Lagadi

more in time.

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Pippin Toker
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Danish:


Lord of the Rings = Ringenes Herre (direct translation)
Bilbo / Frodo Baggins = Bilbo / Frodo Sækker (sæk = bag)
Saruman = Saruman
The Shire = Herredet (an old danish juridical area)
Wormtongue = ormetunge/slangetunge (sometime the dansih translater worm and sometime snake)
Mirkwood = Dunkelskov/Mørkved (the first is the poetic translation, the last is the old scandinavian name Tolkien was inspired from)
Samwise Gamegie = Samvis Gammegod (vis = +/- wise, gammegod means wery good)
Took = Took
Brandybuck = Brændebuk (+/- phonetic)
Strider = Traver (+/- translation)
Goldberry = Gyldenbær (translation)
Rivendel = Kløvedal (translation)
Brandywine = Brændevin (which is the Danish old name for homebrew)
Treebeard = Træskæg (+/- translation)

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Cernunnos
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I was interested in your comment, Telperion, that the Hebrew translation was 'Minister' of the Rings. I know nothing about Hebrew, but is this perhaps because a literal translation of 'Lord', would be adonai (or whatever the word is in mod Hebrew), which would:

i) be considered blasphemous by some, or
ii) give the title a 'religious' connotation JRRT would not have intended.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.

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Mithrennaith
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I am reminded here that 'Lord of the Flies' (as in the title of William Goldings book) is the translation of Hebrew (or is it Aramaic?) Ba'al Zevuv, known in christian Bible translations as Beëlzebub. Wouldn't Ba'al Hatabaot have been an acceptable alternative here?

The Dutch translator also did not translate Lord of the Rings literally; the Dutch title is In de Ban van de Ring, which translates back as 'Under the Spell of the Ring'.

To continue the list Dutch translations with some further names that have been mentioned in this topic in the meantime:
The Gaffer - De Gabber (which translates back as 'mate' or 'buddy')
Fatty Bolger - Dikkie Burger (Dikkie exactly translates 'Fatty', Burger however means 'citizen'! The matter was made worse by also using Burger to (mis)translate 'Burrows', then when 24 years later the same translator also translated App C, 'Bolger' was there translated Bolder, which means a 'bitt' (ships fixture to tie ropes to), but can also be read as a folksy mispronounciation of boller='rounder'. The consequence is, however, that Dutch readers have no idea that Fredegar Bolder in the family trees is the same as Dikkie Burger in the story!)
Barliman Butterbur - Gersteman Boterbast (Gerst is 'barley', boter is 'butter', but bast means 'bark' - of a tree, that is, but also 'paunch'. When the translator read the Guide to Names, which Tolkien wrote after the Dutch translation was first published, he changed Boterbast to Boterbloem, which means 'buttercup'. Most Dutch fans who know both names consider the later name much less appropriate for a fat inkeeper.)
Hal - Henk (for Sam's 'cousin Hal', that is. Actually it's the Dutch equivalent of Harry. Another translation that the translator forgot, when he came to App. C!)
Ted Sandyman - Ted Roothooft (Ted is a name usual in Dutch, Roothooft means 'redhead', with deviant spelling, approximately translating 'sandy' as refering to the colour of Ted's hair.)
Goldberry - Goudbezie (an exact translation, using archaic bezie for 'berry')
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins - Lobelia Buul-Balings (Buul being a 'sack', in dialect pronounciation. For Balings see my first post.)
Rivendell - Rivendel (del is a cognate of 'dell' of the same meaning, Riven however does not carry any obvious meaning in Dutch.)
Tuckborough - Toekburg (Toek phonetically for 'Took', burg is a cognate of 'borough', with roughly the same meaning when used as a place name element.)
Brandy Hall - Brandeburcht (Burcht means 'castle', for Brande- from brandewijn see my first post.)
Bywater - Bijwater (cognate with same meaning)
Bagshot Row - Balingslaantje (literally 'Baggins Lane')
Dunharrow - Dunharrow/Dunharg (the original English or Anglo-saxon forms left untranslated, with no apparent meaning in Dutch.)
Hobbiton - Hobbitstee (lit. 'Hobbitstead')
Mirkwood - Demsterwold (Demster from an archaic word meaning 'dark, shady', wold is a Lower Saxon or Frisian cognate of wood, meaning forest.)
Treebeard - Boombaard (literal)
Wormtongue - Slangtong (literally 'snaketongue'.)
Rose Cotton - Roos Katoen (both cognates and literal translations, of the flower and the Cottonwool plant, that is.)
Saruman - Saruman: unchanged, as it is modernised Anglo-saxon.
The Shire - De Gouw (The usual Dutch term for a carolingian shire)
Barrow Downs - Grafheuvels (an approximate translation, graf being a cognate and translation of '(a) grave', heuvel of 'hill'.)

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Artaresto
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Here's a few more in norwegian:

Dwarrowdelf - Dvergadjup
Westernesse - Vesterness
Lord of the Rings - Ringenes Herre
Ted Sandyman - Ted Sandemann
Fatty Bolger - Fredegar Buttel
Farmer Maggot - Bonden Åmeng
Goldilocks - Gyllenlokk

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Mithcoriel
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German:

Lord of the Rings - Herr der Ringe
Middle-Earth - Mittelerde
Baggins - Beutlin ("bag" = "Beutel")
Shire - Auenland (lit. "meadow/floodplain-land")
Gandalf the Grey - Gandalf der Graue
Strider - Streicher (lit. roamer, prowler)
Rivendell - Bruchtal (lit. break-valley? Is that maybe closer to the elvish name, what was that again?)
Mirkwood - Düsterwald (lit. dark/gloomy/dismal forest)
Helm's Deep - Helms Klamm (Klamm = narrow gorge)
The Fellowship - Die Gefährten (lit. the companions)

Also, in the Silmarillion, some dots on ü ö ä were left away, since in english they're only there to make sure you know it's two syllables, (E.g. Earendil would else be pronouned "Eer-endil") which isn't necessary in german. And in German, they'd confuse the reader into pronouncing them wrong. ("ä" is pronounced like the a in "bad", whereas "a" is pronounced "ah")
Fëanor --> Feanor

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
Rivendell - Bruchtal (lit. break-valley? Is that maybe closer to the elvish name, what was that again?)
Not really - it's Imladris.
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