Does anybody know, from Tolkien? I know he wrote that Hobbits wore dwarf boots, and cloaks. I know in the Sil, they were refered to as being stunted, but I haven't found an actual height yet.
Thanks, Andy
From: Stuttgart, Germany | Registered: Aug 2001
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In "The Hobbit," Tolkien writes that Dwarves are "not much taller" than hobbits-- although the descriptions given, show that they are a good deal larger than Bilbo (i.e. in Goblin-town, they can run with Bilbo on their backs, faster than Bilbo can run by himself; also they can climb into the trees where Bilbo can't, and likewise Thorin can pick up Bilbo and shake him easily, and all the dwarves can fight in battle; likewise they are able to ride larger ponies than Bilbo did. As such, the term "dwarf" refers to them being too short to be humans (since the men of Bree etc. were rather short), but not minute like hobbits. As such, it seems that they'd probably be about 4 feet tall or so.
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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As far as I know dwarves height is not given but there are some clues to be gleaned from JRR's works. In 'The Hobbit' we are told that the secret tunnel on Erebor is 'five feet high and three may walk abreast'. Hobbits we do know the height of. In the Prologue of The Lord of the Rings in 'Concerning Hobbits' we are told,
quote: For they are a little people, smaller than Dwarves: less stout and stocky, that is, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure. They seldom now reach three feet; but they have dwindled, they say, and in ancient days they were taller.
I think it safe to assume that the dwarves could walk upright in the secret tunnel so they must be shorter than five foot. But on the other hand they are taller than hobbits of the time of these tales (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings) who rarely reached over three foot in height. Therefore I think it a safe assumption that dwarves ranged in height from between three and a half foot to four and a half foot. Or, as The Witch-King of Angmar has noted, an average height of four foot.
From: Closer than you think | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:In "The Hobbit," Tolkien writes that Dwarves are "not much taller" than hobbits-- although the descriptions given, show that they are a good deal larger than Bilbo
I think the examples you give are not so much proof for Dwarves being 'a good deal larger than Bilbo', but that they are rather stout and strong. Which is natural, of course, since they worked in mines with heavy equipment, stones etc. For a Dwarf carying Bilbo would feel like carying a large boulder on his back.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me."
posted
Dwarves were said to be EXCEEDINGLY strong for their height, being able to carry twice their weight without tiring; not many coal-miners have that type of strength-- rather, Aulė MADE the Dwarves with this type of strength in order to withstand against Melkor.
Also, the other references stand; for example Bilbo wasn't able to reach the fir-tree branches like the dwarves were, and so they had to climb down and help him into the tree. It also doesn't make a great deal of sense, that the dwarves were able to CARRY Bilbo, faster than he could run on his OWN (although they DID take turns with him) unless they were a good deal bigger (a one-foot difference in height for a hobbit, would be like a human being about 7-8 feet tall in comparison to a normal-sized one-- i.e. a giant who could carry a normal-sized person with no problem).
Finally, it's very difficult to imagine the Dwarves-- namely, just Thorin and the other 12-- fighting as powerfully as they did against the Goblins, if they were only hobbit-sized. (And please don't cite the scouring of the Shire-- that involved a significant numerical AND high-ground advantage, element of surprise, as well as ambush and hunting-bows-- as well as their leaders having war-experience while the ruffians didn't).
[ 10-23-2005, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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There is also the reference of Bilbo wearing a dwarf cloak which is much too big for him.
From: The Grey Havens / Wessex | Registered: Feb 2005
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Bilbo's mithril-shirt was also wrought for a young elf-prince, since dwarf-armor was apparently too big for him.
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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The fact that Thorin could draw a large burning branch from a fire and give, not one, but two consecutive blows to two different trolls says something about the size of their arms/arm strength alone. He would have to be much more than a mouthful, thus more than a hobbit.
But you can't argue that their size had anything to do with how well they fought in battle, a three foot dwarf could take out the legs of a seven foot orc. It may not be as "glorious" but it gets the job done.
If Bombur was at least twice as "fat" as some of the other dwarves, why shouldn't there be a whole proliferation of "height" variations?
Could it be that dwarves were closer to men size than hobbit size before Smaug attacked? Diets described of in Moria gorged appetites above and beyond anything Bilbo could offer the dwarves on the day of their arrival. Would this change their hieght?
If only there were a bunch of birds landing on dwarf and hobbit heads alike, we would know who was taller...the ones the birds perched on the most.
[ 02-03-2006, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: MANDOS ]
From: LOS ANGELES, CA. | Registered: Dec 2005
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I'm sorry. This statement has stunned me into silence.
quote: If only there were a bunch of birds landing on dwarf and hobbit heads alike, we would know who was taller...the ones the birds perched on the most.
I'm too amused to post anything of interest.
From: Helsinki | Registered: Aug 2001
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WiKi, don't give the hobbits too much credit for "war experience". Just because they were present at one or two battles doesn't exactly make them well-versed strategians. Their success in the scouring was more due to the ruffians being extremely dull-witted, and being armed almost exclusively with clubs, whips, and knives, which aren't much use against archers.
As far as height, Pippen at least had to be around 4 feet, to be easily mistaken for a nine year old boy. Since he was taller than most, I'm thinking that most were probably more like 3 feet. I think the reference about most not surpassing 2 feet in height refers to modern times, not the Third Age.
Remember that dwarves could ride full sized horses, the main reason they didn't being a dislike for anything other than their own feet, not their size. This would put then at at least 4 feet high. There probably were some variations, but probably very few reached 5 feet, or the tunnel in the mountain would have been higher. I don't have my book with me now, or I'd look, but does it say how big Bilbo's green door was? I don't remember anything being mentioned about the dwarves having to stoop to enter it, like Gandalf did.
As far as the dwarf armor not fitting Biblo, I suspect that was more in the shoulder breadth department than height. Their armor couldn't have been man-sized, remember the trouble Theoden had finding armor for Gimli?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- If you've come for a visit, you'd be welcome with fewer, if you've come to take me away, you'll need a lot more. I'm a denizen. Athene said so.
From: Dillsburg, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Now it's just my opinion, but I was under the impression that there were so many dwarves in existence before the desolation of Smaug that they were closely knit in age to one another, and that afterwards, nearly the only ones who were left were of mainly one generation. This result of Smaug's aftermath would mean the same thing as saying that they were all closely knit before and after Smaug's desolation, because it was mainly one generation that survived it.
So, if most of the dwarves in Thorin's company were in the same age group then they would need a leader who was from an older group, the one which survived the mountain attact...namely, Thorin. But the problem (and I'm getting around to the height bit here) with leadership of this kind is that it requires too much attention to give to everyone...there are just too many jobs to account for thirteen dwarves to do to count them on just one pair of hands (Thorin's).
Also, since all of them were over 50, they all had beards and must have been somewhat identical when moving very fast to do their jobs in Bilbo's house. Thus, a short lapse of minutes can lead to items being misplaced, and the victim being unable to trace the source because they themselves are also the unwitting crook of another dwarf's goods. Since all dwarves usually simultaneously move around misplacing things like this when other dwarves are moving around misplacing things, there needs to be a hierarchy of order to clearly distinguish who definitely did not misplace something...and the only way to establish that hierarchy is through a dramatic difference in height. Gandalf showed a great difference in height, so we would know for certain that he didn't misplace anything because he is not the size of a dwarf and doesn't often move around simultaneously when they do (otherwise he'd be run over in the hulabaloo, or held up like a basketball player in a crowd of one foot high fans, or they would nonthinkingly move out of his way and create a path for him...like a school of small fish when a whale approaches). He sticks out like an iceburg in an icecube tray.
I know think, because of this, that dwarves were very much shorter than men, because they were proven to be shorter than Gandalf, and they desire the collective atmosphere of other dwarves in order to fit in. The thirteen dwarves felt aukward in Laketown when any of them was met on the street alone, because men shed a contrast on dwarves. Just as cabbage leaves shed a contrast on the pit of the cabbage...since you don't need the pit for anything you just throw it away. Sort of like what they did with the dwarves.
[ 03-06-2006, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: MANDOS ]
From: LOS ANGELES, CA. | Registered: Dec 2005
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