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Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » The Legendarium Project (Page 3)
Author Topic: The Legendarium Project
Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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quote:
"tolkien.ru"-page
That is in Russia, that is why it is possible.

You might want to ask Marcho about the legal issues, I am no lawyer. But I do not believe it is a matter to be taken lightly if you actually consider making it available online.

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Earteery-Wizard
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Hi folks

what you propably got to do is get a web space to put the file which you created on. But keep the URL secret. Then you get several other Free Web spaces 3 or 4 and you turn them into mirrors (Mirror Server).

That should work

You just gotta keep checking if all the mirrors still work.

-EW

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Ash nazg durbatulûk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk,
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul

From: The Council of the white Flame | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
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The text and format are copyrighted and owned. To post any of the books, in any format, where they are 'published' would be a violation of these laws. Making them available reduces the profitability of the copyright holder. Publish would mean that you make it available to someone (anyone) else.

Chances of prosecution? Probably pretty low, unless the idea gains a lot of popularity and publicity. Most publishers have people checking for violations of this sort, but wouldn't spend a great deal of effort trying to shut it down unless they felt they could gain by it. But if they are aware of such sites, they must make some effort to protect their interests, otherwise they may be determined to have abandoned their copyright. That isn't too likely, it is too profitable right now!

As noted, most of the bootleg publications available on the web are being hosted in countries where enforcement is not practical and expediant. Eventually these sites will get shut down, but it may take a long time.

If this was actual legal advice, it would come with a bill. As such, my liability is the same as what you paid for it, nothing.

Tread carefully. While I am a licensed attorney, I highly recommend discussion with a legal professional prior to publishing any sort of compendium for anyone other than yourself.

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Quendil
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I know and often go to a german ebook-forum, where you can ask for a book, and if anyone has it, he sends it to your email-adress. But when the book is somewhere on the internet, they use coded urls like:

"h**p://w*w.minastirith.com"

One rule on the page is, that you are not allowed to write direct links to pages with illegal content.

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Halion
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Quendil, we could use a person who is very familiar with The History of Middle-earth series. []
We haven't really used any of those volumes yet. []

[ 06-27-2002, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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Quendil
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I read the volumes 1-5 and parts of the others.

??? []

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Halion
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Nice, do you have any idea what could be considered "canonical" in those volumes, Quendil?
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Quendil
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Not really! I'm rereading a bit to get it! []
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Halion
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Great, Quendil! []

But now, could anyone comment on the canonicality of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, please?

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Ulairi
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Now, Maerbenn has invited me to this thread. However, a note for Maerbenn, I have done things like this and trust me, you do not wish to do it. I posted a little story of mine over the internet in my forum, someone from Allen & Unwin got hold of it and I received threats from them. They said while it was good and extremely true to the essence of Tolkien, if I ever attempted to publish it, I would be liable for prosecution. I would be a great asset to your compilation, however, just be careful is my first piece of advice.

A good day to you all.

Cheers.

Ulairi.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"...the Nine rode ever on into the North and terror; and terror went before them and lingered behind them..."

From: Minas Morgul and wherever my master tells me! | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
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quote:
I posted a little story of mine over the internet in my forum
Was it some sort of fan-fiction or was it something similar to this project? []
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Orofacion of the Vanyar
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I would be careful Maerbenn of attempting to publish or release anything resembling Tolkien's work online or otherwise. Allen & Unwin are, from what I hear, pretty vicious when it comes to Tolkien's work unfortunately. I admire your intentions but remember one word; two syllables... caution.

If you ever finish this and handle all neccesary copyrighting aspects, put me down for a copy of my own, that is if you heed Imbear and bind with a loverly leather cover. []

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White Gold Wielder
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Can I change the subject of the topic to something shorter? It's really messing up spacing on the first page. I think 'The Legendarium Project' is good enough.

I'll have to remember to add subject length limit changes to my to-do list. []

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Halion
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I changed it myself already, WGW. Sorry for not realising that long topic names are bad... []

But maybe this thread could even be something for the Library, because the issue of what is canonical is something that is very often discussed, atleast on other boards, and this thread is very much about that. []

[ 06-29-2002, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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Halion
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quote:
If you ever finish this and handle all neccesary copyrighting aspects
Orofacion of the Vanyar, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that much work has to be done, given the "rules" I have set up for us. []

I would really like to show the finished work to everyone interested, but how should I do it without breaking any copyright laws? []

And one more thing: Because I have decided to remove the foreshadowing elements of the story (one obvious exception is if the foreshadowing is done by a character, for example, the Doom of Mandos), I cannot keep the title Of the Three Jewels and the Rings of Power (should have thought about that earlier). []

So I think I'll just go for The Legendarium. Any comments?

[ 06-29-2002, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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Halion
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quote:
I think there are 2 major things to consider:

  1. There will be a need to re-edit the sil so that it will agree with the stroytelling format of LOTR (you could do the opposite, but that would be crazy)
  2. Add the "frame-story". According to HOME, the sil was given to humans by Elfwin (sp?), a mariner who reached Tol-Erresea and found the Elf Fengulud (sp?) there. Fengulud read to him the sil as written by an Elf called Romil (sp?).
That's one hell of a job.
Telperion, I am very sorry for not responding earlier to your post in the beginning of this thread.

  1. I don't think I have really explained this earlier in this thread: My goal is not really to create something that would be publishable in a commercial sense. I concentrate on the content, by compiling all the stories of the mythology together with as little plain rewriting as possible (perhaps less than 0.02 %), most of the "editing" is cutting and pasting paragraphs to "the right spot". So it will become a very "raw" text, because, for example, the UT stories are "inside" the Silmarillion text. I think much of the editing Christopher Tolkien did when he was working on The Silmarillion consisted of making the text more "commercial" (correct me if I am wrong). My goal is to create a canon, but just in the sense of story, not in a stylistic or narrative sense, because I think that would demand that I rewrite a lot, and the result would be something else than the Legendarium of Professor J.R.R. Tolkien.
  2. This may be a bit hard to explain, but I have decided to strip or edit phrases like 'It is said', 'It is told', and so on, because the book, (if you can call it that) which this project will result in, can not have a narrative as though it was told by someone, because then I would have to invent a character in the story who was supposed to have written/compiled the book, and that wouldn't be accepted. So this "book" will be like other books in the sense that it just tells the reader what happens, and doesn't give him/her a sense that the story is compiled and told by someone. I'm not re-editing The Silmarillion (there atleast was a project for this on another Tolkien board), I'm doing the whole Legendarium in a "new" book, which isn't supposed to have been compiled by any Elves, Númenóreans, Gondorians or Hobbits, it will just tell what happened (but I will use the other books to put it together). []


[ 07-07-2002, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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Halion
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I would very much like to have more activity in this thread now... []

It has come to my understanding, that some issues of Vinyar Tengwar have essays written by the Professor himself that may be useful for this project. In fact, if they are written in such a style that makes it possible for me to seamlessly add them into the Legendarium, then I simply must get them, or else the Legendarium wouldn't be complete! []

I know the Vinyar Tengwar contents page, but I'm not sure which essays I should get, does anyone have a clue? []

[ 06-25-2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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Eldorian
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Include a bit of Quenya background for one.
From: Wizard land though I'm most often found in the V.O.E | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Telperion
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Maerbenn I think removing the frame story is a big mistake - one of CT's biggest mistakes, actually. The frame story is what was originally intended by JRRT. It's everywhere - in the full early version of the fall of Gondolin, for exmple. It not only adds depth to the whole thing, but is also one of the main aspects of Tolkien portraying himself as a "translator" and not "writer".

As far as cut-and-paste jobs are concerned, I think adding the lay of Leithian and the lay of the children of Húrin is in order, either instead or after the 'ordinary' format of these stories. The children of Húrin story should be given in the full UT version, not the shrter Sil version. Also, the full version of the fall of Gondolin should be included (except the first part about Tuor's comming into the city that contradicts later versions of the same story).

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Telperion
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On second thought the Hurin lay may be too problematic. Very contradictory to the published text.
The Gondolin text only has contradictions in the beginning, as far as I can remember (no 7 gates at the incline to the city, different Elven companion, different revelation of Ulmo...).

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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Yes Telperion, we have already put the Narn I Hîn Húrin and Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin from UT in, with some editing, and are thinking of putting the other two you mentioned in too, but I am not so sure if any lays besides the ones already in the Silmarillion can be put in. As you said, they can be contradictory, and also repeating the 'ordinary' text.

What do you think about editing in The Wanderings of Húrin, mainly replacing the corresponding shorter story in the Sil?

[ 06-27-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Isildur of the Númenóreans ]

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Telperion
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I didn't refer to "Of Tuor and his comming to Gondolin". I was talking about an earlier text in HoME, that refers to what happened AFTER Tuor got to Gondolin, and the destruction of Gondolin. I don't know exactly where in HoME the text is, though...

"The wanderings of Húrin"? I don't think I've read that one.

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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Yes I knew what you were talking about, the earlier Fall of Gondolin story that can be found in BoLT 2. We will probably put that one in too.

The Wanderings of Húrin can be found in The War of the Jewels.

[ 06-27-2002, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Isildur of the Númenóreans ]

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Eldorian
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Marebeen by that I mean that could be one of the things that you might like to do for definite.
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Halion
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Mirithan, I understand that you think the invented languages are an important aspect of the creation of Tolkien, and they are. But one of the first things I decided was that I can't have purely linguistical essays in the Legendarium, because they don't really belong to the story and they would stop the "flow" of the text. A more important problem is what I should do with some essays that have been publised in the Vinyar Tengwar that seem to both be linguistical and add to the story. []

[ 06-28-2002, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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