Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
  This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 
Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » The Legendarium Project (Page 1)
Author Topic: The Legendarium Project
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I had a crazy idea, and now I need to know your opinion about this. In Letter #125, JRRT wrote:
quote:
But the whole Saga of the Three Jewels and the Rings of Power has only one natural division into two parts (each of about 600,000 words): The Silmarillion and other legends; and The Lord of the Rings.
Does this mean that the name which JRRT had in mind for the whole story is The Saga of the Three Jewels and the Rings of Power (or perhaps just The Three Jewels and the Rings of Power)? Is this something definitive or is it just a phrase he came up with when he was writing the letter? []

[ 06-21-2002, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Or what about The Legendarium?

I will tell about my crazy idea later. []

[ 06-23-2002, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Thorin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 816
posted      Profile for Thorin   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I heard a rumor once that the naming of the three books "Fellowship, Two Towers, etc." was actually done by someone at the publishing company, and that Tolkien actually had names for each of the six books in LOTR, but not for the "trilogy" format they were published in. (Maybe that's in HOME somewhere???) But I'm interested in your Legendarium.
From: Helsinki | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Actually they were purposed by TOlkien himself in (now published) letters to his publishers when he learned they wished to publish lotr in 3 volumes.

[ 05-20-2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
That's right, he had to come up with the titles for those three parts when the publishing company wanted to publish LOTR that way. But I was thinking about a suitable title for the whole mythology, which JRRT called his Legendarium.

[ 05-20-2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I doubt that title given can be taken as anything really "definitive" as it doesn't really seem to be set up as a formal title but rather to me it seems more like a genertic all inclusive phrase for the moment. The way I see it when ever Tolkien had separate and distinct works in one vol. (such as TTT and perhaps similar to CT's seeming practice with the HoME series) he tried to find a specific thing which was related to the two to related them together. As the Legendarium is a collection of multiple works from multiple time periods with different stories it seems to me such a title as you have put forth may very well have been considered by Tolkien as those tow things seem to provide the basis for all his works.

[ 05-25-2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
OK! []
You see, I asked that unusual question because I had this crazy idea:

I started to put all of the texts about Middle-earth (or Eä, Arda, Imbar, etc.) into one huge text (I have them in electronic format) and in chronological order, to be able to read through the whole Legendarium without switching physical books and searching for certain chapters and so on, in the right order, just for my own enjoyment. And I was thinking, when this gigantic text is ready to be read, I would like to have a title (and a cover image) for the whole thing. But as you can imagine, I have realised that this task may be too hard and time-consuming, because the thing I'm doing actually resembles that what Christopher Tolkien was doing when he edited the Silmarillion. []

Any comments?

[ 06-12-2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Wow that would be quite a task. In someways it would bee more like CT's compilation of HoME []
From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but I try to have just one version of each "substory" there, so that there are no overlaps. But I think the biggest challenge is to get a consistency in the whole huge story (the substories consistent with each other), and to choose the "best" version of each substory... of course, if there is a short version in the Silmarillion, and a longer version in UT, I choose the UT version. But I am really interested to know the final decisions by JRRT regarding the mythology (Legendarium), because atleast in principle, they should be the best (canonical) ones, don't you think? It would be very nice if as many citizens as possible would join this thread and tell what they think should be included, and what shouldn't, and so on. I think this thread is personally the most important to me right now on this message board. []

[ 07-07-2002, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well CT for the most part did do that with the silm. There are of course some specific traditions and concepts pretty much finalized by TOlkien which he did not integrat though. Are you more talking about them?
From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well, The Silmarillion is the basis for my project. In practice, I opened the file with the Silm and started editing it. I want to include every story which isn't in the Silm already, and if there are several versions of a story, I choose the best one. So the other main Tolkien works, TH and LOTR, will also be added. And I would like to try to fix the mistakes CT did with the Silmarillion, because it seems to me that he did a few, or what do you say?
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Thorin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 816
posted      Profile for Thorin   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Maerbenn, very interesting! I did something along those lines with The Fall of Gondolin , which I've always loved. It's a difficult job, just because there are several versions of stories in different books, all written, edited, and published at different time periods. Christopher has published so much information as to the actual process of writing, so for instance we can see how the story of Beren and Luthien evolved over the decades. Trying to put it all together would be quite a task. Good luck!
From: Helsinki | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Just to clarify things if there has been any misunderstanding: The project is not just an idea anymore, it is in progress.

Now I have a very general question: Should the whole story sound like as it was told by someone (like the Silm is atleast in places told from the Elves' point of view), or should it be as close as possible to the "truth"? I think this will affect what the text will say about the origins of the Orcs, for example.

And at this point I would also like to tell you about a decision I made about this project that I think will upset some of you: I decided to remove all "self-spoiling" phrases, for example from the Silm:
quote:
In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which Fëanor was the leader
The reason is that I intend to make this the work you read when you read Tolkien for the first time, I want it to be as exciting as possible. When you are finished with it, you will probably want to read just some particular stories again at first, then you can use the "real" works, like LOTR and TH. The second time you read, the spoilers don't affect the experience as much as the first time. *ducks*
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
-strike that-

I'm sorry it seems I am taking this a bit too seriously [] This does sound pretty interesting and I have to admit I would be interested in reading through such a rendering []

[ 05-29-2002, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Telperion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1636

posted      Profile for Telperion   Email Telperion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I think there are 2 major things to consider:
  1. There will be a need to re-edit the sil so that it will agree with the stroytelling format of LOTR (you could do the opposite, but that would be crazy [] )
  2. Add the "frame-story". According to HOME, the sil was given to humans by Elfwin (sp?), a mariner who reached Tol-Erresea and found the Elf Fengulud (sp?) there. Fengulud read to him the sil as written by an Elf called Romil (sp?).
That's one hell of a job.
From: Israel, North East of Tel Aviv | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orofacion of the Vanyar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1166

posted      Profile for Orofacion of the Vanyar   Email Orofacion of the Vanyar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting you mention Lengendarium Maerbenn. Have you heard of Legendarium, the recent scholarly collection devoted to the HoME. Or am I being thick (which definetly could be the case [] ) and that is what you've been talking about when referring to it.
From: Cincinnati, OH | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Legendarium is a word Tolkien made up. He used it when he was talking about his whole mythology (from the Creation to the Fourth Age). The authors of Tolkien's Legendarium - Essays on The History of Middle-earth have used the same word in the title of their book.
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orofacion of the Vanyar
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1166

posted      Profile for Orofacion of the Vanyar   Email Orofacion of the Vanyar   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Right, I know, but I was wondering if you had read it. I haven't. Sorry I should have been more clear.

Also Maerbenn, do you subscribe to Wired magazine? They had an amazing article in October of last year on Tolkien, his works, impact, and the, then, upcoming movie. A great read to be sure!

From: Cincinnati, OH | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Right, I know, but I was wondering if you had read it. I haven't. Sorry I should have been more clear.
No, I haven't. Maybe I should, when I'm working on my project. []

quote:
Also Maerbenn, do you subscribe to Wired magazine? They had an amazing article in October of last year on Tolkien, his works, impact, and the, then, upcoming movie. A great read to be sure!
No, I don't, but I remember reading an article about Tolkien's impact on the web, and I think it was on Wired magazine's web site. [] It was indeed interesting.
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eldorian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2113

posted      Profile for Eldorian   Author's Homepage   Email Eldorian   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Maerbren I think so in response to yur first post.
From: Wizard land though I'm most often found in the V.O.E | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
You think it's a good title, Mirithan?
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eldorian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2113

posted      Profile for Eldorian   Author's Homepage   Email Eldorian   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yes. Pehaps its cause I'm not quite normal.
From: Wizard land though I'm most often found in the V.O.E | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I think it's a good title too (albeit rather long), but of course I want the one that Tolkien had in his mind, if he had any. []
Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2140
posted      Profile for Halion   Email Halion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I forgot to tell you that the spoiler removal includes removing all chapter and book names, and the space between chapters! So only the paragraphs are distinguishable. In the place where a new book or chapter should start, there is just a new paragraph. *ducks*

[ 06-12-2002, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eldorian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2113

posted      Profile for Eldorian   Author's Homepage   Email Eldorian   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Maerbenn why did you just duck?
From: Wizard land though I'm most often found in the V.O.E | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Reference Material » The Legendarium Project (Page 1)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1