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Valar God
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 11362

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Since someone is allowed to lie and insult and I am not,
I will do it here.


quote:
Another nice thread ruined…

Look, you want people to believe you when you say that up is down and down is up. That and 25 other admittedly fringe ideas all at once.

So, since you don’t have the skill to break down your argument and explain yourself to the point of convincing a rational person that what they have been taught is wrong, you give us two sentence paragraphs jumping all over the place and dripping with smarm.

And then you wonder why you get ridicule. And I wonder why you then get hostile with people when their incredulity is the only logical response to the content and manner of your argument.

Look, make a thread about this and talk about it to your heart’s content. Just don’t hijack a decent thread with your bad attitude and even worse ability to express yourself.

I’ll give you until the end of the day to copy what you want out of here and then I’m deleting your posts. Wonder all you want about the core of the earth, but you don’t need to wonder who run Bartertown.

I got to admit that I admire your skill
of putting words in my mouth.

I admire you as much as I admire a poop lying on the road.


quote:

Look, you want people to believe you when you say that up is down and down is up. That and 25 other admittedly fringe ideas all at once.

Did I say I want something ?
Anything ?
I don't care if you or anyone else believes in this.

I have given you knowledge of extraordinary value.
Do I have to waste my time forcing you to believe in it
if you are stubbornly "rational" to stick
with what you have been told to think ?

You had a chance to say something meaningful.
But you have wasted it on some BS.
Twice.
If you are not smart and honest enough to make a reasonable argument
I will not take your crap as an opinion.


quote:
...that up is down and down is up.
Where did I claim such thing ?
Why didn't you quote me on that ?

This kind of behavior is as low as an admin can go.


quote:
That and 25 other admittedly fringe ideas all at once.
You collect magic beans also, don't you ?
That is why you are pissed off ?


quote:
So, since you don’t have the skill to break down your argument and explain yourself to the point of convincing a rational person that what they have been taught is wrong, you give us two sentence paragraphs jumping all over the place and dripping with smarm.
You stinking maggot !

I wrote almost a book here.

Do you have the skill to break down YOUR argument ?
Why don't you show me how it is done the proper way ?

Have you written what is it that you can't comprehend
so that I explain it to you as I do to other children ?

Did you do any of the research yourself or you expect
me to chew it down all for you ?


quote:
And then you wonder why you get ridicule. And I wonder why you then get hostile with people when their incredulity is the only logical response to the content and manner of your argument.

I didn't know that I was wondering why I got ridiculed.

Was I ridiculed ?

Are you ridiculed now ?

Tell me, please, more of the things that I don't know I am thinking.

I am very hostile towards the content and manner of your "argument".

Wait, I haven't heard any of your arguments yet.


Since there will be no "reasonable discussion" on this matter anymore
I will use this opportunity to tell you what I really think
about you, your crap, your manners, your ability to express yourself,
your "arguments" and your "opinion":

**** YOU !

There.

Now ban me, as you intended since my first reply to your bull****.

Cheers.

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Artaresto
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 6089

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Tigranes
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 9076
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This one is even better than WiKi. []

That said, I don't see a reason why the OP went mad like this. Then again, I don't really get what that other thread was about anyway.

[ 08-19-2011, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Roll of Honor Athene
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3473

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[] Splendido! []
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White Gold Wielder
Steward of Minas Tirith
Citizen # 2

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Here's the full text of the "misunderstanding" before I pruned it.

Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-09-2011 05:03 PM:
quote:
Greetings !

I have been researching "conspiracy theories" for a few years back and over time I have seen a connection between stories with completely different background and origin. One of those is in Tolkien's work.

I too think that Tolkien's stories got deep bases, not in what we would call history because this isn't written in any history book, but in history that has happened but never written or deleted.

I will tell you, step by step, my "theory" which involves also things that are our reality, not mere fiction.

First step, take a look at this video:

Conspiracy of Science - Earth is in fact growing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfBSc6e7QQ

Many people that see this video start to think about many things but most of them somehow miss some main points that can be concluded on this: (I think that the Earth really did grow)

- why did the Earth grow
- where did the water come from
- how come that the water level is equal to where the landmasses used to touch each other ?
- and the main point:
If something (Earth) grew and nothing was added to it, wasn't there an empty space created inside ??? In fact, the Earth was BLOWN.

You will find how the other planets are growing too but that is just a blatant lie.

The Earth grew, for no other reason, especially not because of centrifugal forces, that is ridiculous, but by superior alien technology.

Yes, you are thinking now that I am crazy. Let's continue.

When you have the time, take a look at this documentary: "Chariots of Gods" by Erich von Daniken

The water was brought to the Earth by the same aliens. That is why there isn't any water on other planets.

By the way, people were never on the Moon and all the Mars missions are a lie, because there is no propulsion system know to men that can take him anywhere outside the orbit of Earth. Because the "air" is too thin for it to work or, if it works in some extent, the rocket would have to be refueled numerous times to get anywhere, Moon e.g. You just can't take enough fuel with you because its weight requires additional fuel to be lifted of the ground.

I don't know from where was the water brought or if it was created somehow.

That the Earth is hollow is a know fact to seismic scientists who know how the Earth resonates like a bell after the earthquake.

Besides that, if you agree that the Earth has grown (you should at least agree to that by now) how come that there was no crack in Earth's core so that the water goes trough it inside the Earth ???

Because, the alien technology and their process maintained the integrity of the core.

Now, what most people that accept that the Earth did grow do is that they miss the fact that the Earth is Hollow.

Search the web for "Hollow Earth".

Absurdly enough, most of the people who believes in Hollow Earth doesn't think about how the Earth became hollow.


About the Hollow Earth you will find many references and stories and many of them are a lie, like the one about the Norwegian who sailed inside or that (coincidentally) American (who else) who flew inside. But the stories themselves tell that there is something.

If you search and read enough, you will find unrelated stories about:
- hyperborea
- valhalla
- olympians
- garden of eden
- Arda
- many more ...

You will find out that inside is a small Sun, that the climate is perfect, that there are prehistoric animals inside, that there are also giants, that the people live there for a very long time, about 800 years.

My opinion: there is peace there, people are not driven by their selfishness like on the surface (all the evil comes from selfishness) and they don't want to contact us and they are not allowing us to come inside.

Why are they doing this ? I don't know, experiment ? They came from somewhere and there are more of them like them/us ?

There are some religious aspects in this whole story which I won't mention for my own reasons. Anything that I will mention that is related to religions I will mention only for its own relation without taking in consideration any religious aspects.

First, the Bible:

For a long time I took the Bible as a fictional story but lately I see a lot of truth written in metaphorical way The old testament only. Lately, I take Silmarillion as my Bible. (I have taken it as my Bible even before I found all of this but now I have a good reason to truly believe in it)

- Adam and Eve where living somewhere where everything grew nicely (perfect climate ?), living for 800 years or so, (their children too, but shorter and shorter)(and now less than 100 years) they were not allowed to return, .... The Bible itself says that "the children of Adam and Eve went around the world mixing with other people." (don't mind my English translation) What other people ?!?!

There is much more to this story but you will have to find those answers for yourself.

The important thing is that there are people who know the whole truth about the origin of the people on Earth. But they are keeping it to them selves. They are also claiming the origin from some of them thinking that they are better then other people. Make the connections here.

Now, Tolkien was hanging out with such people and he knew them very well. (historical fact, not my opinion)

I don't know if he was a part of them, I think not, but it seems that he knew much about all of this. Who told him about it or how he came in possession of such knowledge, I don't know.

He has left many clues:

- the all seeing eye
(he has killed it in the end so I guess he wasn't a part of them)

- that Moria gate resembles masonic gate
(I don't know if Tolkien drew the gate or someone else later did)
(I have only seen the gate from the movie)

- the dwarves are his allegory of something

- .... things that I can't remember or that I have missed

Silmarillion:
----------------------
- The God created the Earth
(the aliens made the Earth hollow, brought water and brought life)

- There were Valars
(aliens, as superior mighty beings, were considered as gods by lower inferior beings with no knowledge about such technology thinking it is god's will or magic)

- It was dark in the begging
(it is dark inside hollow objects)

- The Sun was created
(the small central Sun was put to work)

- Elves, men, dwarf were awakened
(or they were born and left with no education to develop and learn by themselves)
(some mention that people were genetically engineered)

- Middle Earth
(you mean "inside of the Hollow Earth" ?)
=)

- There were "undying lands"
(inside, people live for 800 years)
(which wouldn't be hard to imagine if there are no pollution, no toxins, advanced medicine, less accidents achieved by using better technology, better life, less sufferings, .....

(here, there are some discrepancies with my theory)
(it looks like some things happened inside and some on the surface)

Like all the things have happened on the surface and then elves sailed into the Hollow Earth were they can't be followed ....

I don't take all the things Tolkien wrote literally. He surely invented something, many things, and, if any of them are based on genuine historical even, he changed some of them either to fit it in the story or to hide its origin or for any other reason.

I hope that I gave you enough material to do your own research and to make your own conclusions. This is the basic theory.

I think there are intelligent beings inside our Earth living in peace and watching us. What is their ultimate purpose ? I don't know.

But I think they have surfaced many times in our history. One of them is destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. People there went too far so they said "enough".

The other time was "Tunguska incident". The only possibility that I can take as probable is that a large meteorite was coming our way, so large that it could have a devastating consequences for the Earth so they destroyed it. Why haven't they destroyed it before it entered out atmosphere ? I don't know. But Tesla wasn't nor he would do or make something that would have such power to destroy many lives.

I hope that, when these idiots that are destroying the Earth now with all the nukes, earthquakes, wars, poverty, diseases, .... step over the line, they will come out again and do something about it and I sincerely hope for it to be soon.

I hope that I haven't left out or forgotten some important aspect of this story but then again I can't chew it all out for you =)

Yes I did.
My opinion is that the history of the people on the Earth is no older than 20.000 years. All the stories about prehistoric periods and such are a lie.

proof: search for: "unlimited oil"
if you were being lied to how we will run out of oil could there be a possibility that you were lied about many other things ?

proof no2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole
calculate how much warmer the ground becomes the more deep you go and at what deepness will it reach e.g. 5.000 Celsius. Much less than 500 km, right ? Even 5.000C is too much and if the core is more warmer than it wouldn't be a good thing, right ? (if it is true, the Sun's temperature is 5.000C ) Now, double that lenght, 500 x 2 = 1.000 km What did you get ? You got a maximum of how thick the "wall" of the Earth is before you reach the "hollow" part.

And NO, there are no openings at the poles. With such a superior technology I am sure they have trap-doors.

I hope you enjoyed it.

Think about it.

Cheers.

ps: thanks to WGW for the tip

Posted by White Gold Wielder (Citizen # 2) on 08-12-2011 09:50 AM:
quote:
Oh great, my name involved in this post. []

The difference between us seems to be in that I admit the reality that mine is just a thought exercise. When you make statements that the Earth is 20,000 years old, it's hard to come away from that with anything other than the desire to fetch a long stick and keep you at long-stick distance away from me.

Posted by Artaresto (Citizen # 6089) on 08-12-2011 11:58 AM:
quote:
quote:
there isn't any water on other planets.
[]

Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-13-2011 07:54 AM:
quote:

The difference between us seems to be that
I don't wrap mild insults into mere "opinion"
which got no base either in evidence nor science,
nor has any explanation to go with it.
I am also not full of myself and thinking
how a bit of BS from myself is so meaningful
and that my "reputation" will do the rest.

But enough about me.

As for you, I am quite surprised that an owner of a forum
is filling it with arrogance and vain.
I can't answer you until I find out, with what you said,
if you intended to look smart or stupid.


@Artaresto

Interesting, no answers for 3 days and then within minutes 2 posts.

What have you been waiting for ?
To hear the official opinion, so that you know what to think ?
Is that all you had to say ?
Would you like to support your claims with some evidence ?
Like a specimen of water from any other planet ?
Perhaps, at least, with a picture taken by an astronaut who was been there ?
No ?
Right ....

I really don't care about the "opinion" of the ones
who believe that 50 years ago, or even now,
someone was/is able to go to the Moon and other bedtime stories.
I will just turn on the TV and hear the same "opinion".
I expected to hear something genuine.

No hard feelings.

Cheers.

 -

Posted by Numenorean Sword Trainer (Citizen # 11359) on 08-13-2011 12:50 PM:
quote:
?
Posted by Artaresto (Citizen # 6089) on 08-15-2011 07:42 AM:
quote:

quote:
What have you been waiting for ?
I tend to forget about topics unless the lanterns are alight (and hence 1 visit and I forget)
quote:
Would you like to support your claims with some evidence ?
Like a specimen of water from any other planet ?

There was in the news recently that NASA had found something they were suspecting was flowing water (unlike earlier finds of ice). Link to news.

One doesn't have to be there to be able to deduce what planets consist of (or the sun, for that matter).

quote:
To hear the official opinion, so that you know what to think ?
People can believe what they want. Certain points in your 'article' are interesting, but I still dismiss them with a shrug. Compelling evidence is needed, not vague correlations.

Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-15-2011 08:24 AM:
quote:

 -

Posted by Artaresto (Citizen # 6089) on 08-15-2011 08:44 AM:
quote:
With such a lengthy post, I will bow very low it it's a troll.
Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-15-2011 08:51 AM:
quote:

The amount of bad science in that post is so extreme that it comes under the category of Not Even Wrong

Posted by Artaresto (Citizen # 6089) on 08-15-2011 09:23 AM:
quote:
*clicking on 'Creationist Escape Hatch'*

E: I'm trapped!

Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-15-2011 09:33 AM:
quote:
Hahaha, try not to get lost in RationalWiki, it's almost as bad as the original for the Wikiwandering. I'm not very busy at work today but I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't be looking at Peruvian war dances and the mating habits of African land snails.
Posted by Artaresto (Citizen # 6089) on 08-15-2011 09:35 AM:
quote:
Yeah, too late.
Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-15-2011 09:37 AM:
quote:
[] []
Posted by Varnafindë (Citizen # 4097) on 08-15-2011 01:20 PM:
quote:
quote:
the mating habits of African land snails
I should recommend those to a friend of mine who writes Narnian fanfiction and who prefers those details to be accurate rather than family friendly
Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-15-2011 09:40 PM:
quote:
Has your rage wave ended ?
I hope you had fun.


quote:
There was in the news recently that NASA ....
I guess, you are the one of those
who own a rock from a volcano, erm ..., I mean ... from the Moon.

Do you collect magic beans, too ??


I said it twice about NASA and you still use it as an argument.

Do you have something valid ?
No ?
Right ...


I will take it that you are really trying, so here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion

Do I have to repeat for you why all the space missions are a lie ?


quote:
One doesn't have to be there to be able to deduce what planets consist of (or the sun, for that matter).
 -


quote:
People can believe what they want.
Yes, you can.


quote:
Certain points in your 'article' are interesting, but I still dismiss them with a shrug.
Yes, that IS the problem.
Dismissing with a shrug, not with arguments.

Actually, I don't care if you dismiss anything
but you are filling this topic with unnecessary
and useless comments.


quote:
Compelling evidence is needed, not vague correlations.
You are absolutely right.
I would LOVE to see some evidence from you.
And I don't even insist on any evidence,
I would be more that satisfied with a reasonable argument.


In conclusion:
quote:
People can believe what they want. Certain points in your 'article' are interesting, but I still dismiss them with a shrug. Compelling evidence is needed, not vague correlations.
I guess you wrote this for yourself, then ?


@Athene
quote:
Blah, blah, blah, ...
Yes, blah.


Here

Yes, please continue to read RationalWiki.
I guess it suits your level of intelligence.


@Varnafindë

I am SO thrilled that you took the time to say something.
Whatever that was.


I don't mind having a reasonable discussion,
but you should use your computer and internet skills
and look up for the meaning of "discussion".

It would be too much for me to expect it to be "reasonable".

But this is not a discussion.
This is a lame attempt of mocking.

But I don't mind nor it will change my opinion on any subject.
I know your reasons for it.
In almost every case it is because of some complex of yours.

So, you do things that helps you feed your ego.
Mocking is like a drug for you.
(I sincerely hope it helps you)

Isn't that what you are doing a part of being "mean" ?

Of course not, I am sure you think that you are the best people in the world
and that there should be more people like you.


Keep it up, let the other children see it and laugh at you.

If there is anyone with a real opinion
eventually supported with some arguments or scientific facts
I would be more than glad to hear it.

Cheers.

 -

Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-16-2011 01:16 AM:
quote:
Newton's laws state that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore it is not necessary to have an atmosphere to propel an object. That's for starters.

Secondly, evaporation and precipitation cycles within an atmosphere remain relatively constant, which means we would expect the water level when the continents were in different places to be roughly the same as they were now, hence the continents seeming to fit together. If you have looked at a map of where the actual faults and subduction zones are for the plates, this makes it even clearer.

Thirdly, a sun is a pretty hot object, what with the whole nuclear fusion thing, and if it was close enough to be inside a hollow planet it would obliterate that planet entirely.

Fourthly, there are vibrations and currents within the Earth after extreme tectonic activity because the inside of the Earth is filled with super dense liquid; I am hopeful that you know enough about physics to know that pressure waves also move through liquids.

The rest of it; well. You assert anything in which you don't believe is a "lie" without providing evidence that it is a lie, then dismiss all the evidence that it is not a lie as a lie, while at the same time asserting that there are people living inside the Earth who talked to Tolkien and that water was brought to Earth by aliens. I wouldn't dismiss your "evidence" for such a thing as a lie, simply because you haven't provided any.

And then, as a final flourish, you castigate anyone who doesn't agree with you as deluded sheeple with personality disorders, a classic gambit of anyone on the internet who doesn't have a real argument.

I still hold out the hope that you are trolling because if not, then you, sir, are crackers.

Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-16-2011 03:43 AM:
quote:
See that would look like a normal answer
only if you managed to keep the anger inside
and omit the last part.

quote:
Newton's laws state that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore it is not necessary to have an atmosphere to propel an object. That's for starters.
I don't really care what Newton said, he did not CREATE laws of physics.
But let's say that it DOES work.
Are you aware how much fuel is needed to lift the rocket into the orbit ?
You can see that by looking at the tank of rockets carrying satellites
which, logically, don't go further than orbit.
How much fuel do you think is needed to get to the Moon ?
AND BACK ?
Do you know that for every gallon of extra fuel you need to carry
a few more to lift that gallon into the orbit ?
And then a few more to carry that gallon to the Moon ?
And for those extra gallons needed to carry that one gallon
you need more to lift them ..... ..... ....
Not to mention that you need many more than that one gallon !
Not to mention how far the Mars is !

Do you know that, once ignited, you can't turn the engine off ?
How do you plan to go back ?


quote:
Secondly, evaporation and precipitation cycles within an atmosphere remain relatively constant, which means we would expect the water level when the continents were in different places to be roughly the same as they were now, hence the continents seeming to fit together. If you have looked at a map of where the actual faults and subduction zones are for the plates, this makes it even clearer.
The continents weren't in different places, the planet was smaller.
About two times smaller in radius.
If there was water then, the land would be all submerged.

You are pushing the Pangea theory here.

You are just showing your ignorance
and stubbornness in sticking to what you have been told to think.

Ok, keep pushing.
I don't believe I can change that,
I am just writing an explanation for others.


quote:
Thirdly, a sun is a pretty hot object, what with the whole nuclear fusion thing, and if it was close enough to be inside a hollow planet it would obliterate that planet entirely.
As far as I know, the Sun is far away.

I guess you don't know that more than 2000 nuclear test (bombs)
were conducted in recent history.
(no one counts that in when lying about alleged global warming)

All those explosions included the process of nuclear FISSION.

But the planet was not "obliterated entirely".

You are rather good in giving false information.
You should work for NASA.
They would love you.

Considering that the superior alien technology used in process
of growing the Earth made a remarkable job
it is very likely that they have a technology
to make an inner Sun-like structure.

It doesn't even have to be nuclear-fission-based.
Even if it is, small nuclear reaction will do no harm.
Like the Sun isn't doing any harm.

There goes your demagogy down the drain.


quote:
Fourthly, there are vibrations and currents within the Earth after extreme tectonic activity because the inside of the Earth is filled with super dense liquid; I am hopeful that you know enough about physics to know that pressure waves also move through liquids.
Vibrations and currents ARE NOT there because of what's inside.
They are there because of tectonic activity itself.

What is interesting is HOW it moves through the Earth.

Yes, waves move trough liquids, but in different manner.
A LOT different than trough air.
Demagogy again ...

Super dense liquid ?
And where did you get that info, may I ask ?
Someone has dug that deep ?

Or is it some assumption that someone is allowed to make
but, for some reason, I am not ?!!??

Or is that how you were told to think ... ?

Do YOU know enough about physics ... ?


quote:
The rest of it; well. You assert anything in which you don't believe is a "lie" without providing evidence that it is a lie, then dismiss all the evidence that it is not a lie as a lie...
More of superb demagogy ...

Tell me please, what is it that was proved with evidence
that I said it is a lie ?

Why haven't you quoted me on that ?

Wait, you say: "in which I don't believe" ?
So, those are things that are based on someones belief ???

Well, excuse me for not BELIEVING in things
I have been told I must believe in.

I will not use insults at the end.

Thank you, come again !

Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-16-2011 05:10 AM:
quote:
You know what, never mind. Someone who states that he knows better than basically every modern scientist because.. er... he says so, I guess? cannot understand rational argument.

As they say, those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.

Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-16-2011 05:44 AM:
quote:
I knew you will give up.

Not that you haven't tried, but it is just not good enough.

Yes, I think you should give up.

You know it makes sense.
*Del Boy*

Cheers.

Posted by Athene (Citizen # 3473) on 08-16-2011 05:50 AM:
quote:
Indeed. If there is one thing that this website has taught me, it is that you do not engage the crazy on the internet.
Posted by Valar God (Citizen # 11362) on 08-16-2011 06:25 AM:
quote:
Hey, whatever excuse you come up with,

if it works for you,

it is just fine with me.

Cheers.

Posted by White Gold Wielder (Citizen # 2) on 08-18-2011 09:00 AM:
quote:
Another nice thread ruined…

Look, you want people to believe you when you say that up is down and down is up. That and 25 other admittedly fringe ideas all at once.

So, since you don’t have the skill to break down your argument and explain yourself to the point of convincing a rational person that what they have been taught is wrong, you give us two sentence paragraphs jumping all over the place and dripping with smarm.

And then you wonder why you get ridicule. And I wonder why you then get hostile with people when their incredulity is the only logical response to the content and manner of your argument.

Look, make a thread about this and talk about it to your heart’s content. Just don’t hijack a decent thread with your bad attitude and even worse ability to express yourself.

I’ll give you until the end of the day to copy what you want out of here and then I’m deleting your posts. Wonder all you want about the core of the earth, but you don’t need to wonder who run Bartertown.


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