posted
I was reading UT again when I read this near the end:
quote: It is only in the time between The Hobbit and its sequel that it is discovered that the Necromancer is Sauron Redivivus, growing swiftly to visible shape and power again. He escapes the vigilance and re-enters Mordor and the Dark Tower.
Now I've heard (of course) of Sauron's name in Sindarin, Gorthaur the Cruel, but I've never heard of Redivivus. Is this the only reference anyone else has seen? It sounds to be of a different origin.
From: Virgo Supercluster, 40º N 75º W | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
This is from a footnote to letter 131. redivivus means "living again; brought back to life; revived; restored". I dont think this is an "intra-Legendarium" name.
From: Menegroth, deep under the sea | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Was it letters I was reading? Funny, I had both bookmarked(as a word doc) at work and was reading both today...
From: Virgo Supercluster, 40º N 75º W | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Yes, redivivus is an English adjective. Not sure why it gets the capital letter.
Men called him Thû, and as a god in after days beneath his rod bewildered bowed to him, and made his ghastly temples in the shade ...
From: Taruithorn | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
From ‘Words, Phrases & Passages in various tongues in The Lord of the Rings’ published in Parma Eldalamberon #17:
quote:Sauron’s original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon ‘King Excellent’ until after the downfall of Númenor.
posted
Hammond and Scull (RC, xii) cite an (unpublished) research that counted 103 "titles, nicknames, and descriptive epithets" (RC, ibid.) for Sauron alone. And this was just in LR, so it doesn't even include Redivivus, Thû, Gorthaur, Zigûr and Mairon (among others).
From: Groningen, the Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Mairon? How curious... Any idea where is it from and what does it mean?
As for "Redivivus" it is Latin, so it can't possibly be part of the inner story - just a term Tolkien used instead of writing "one who is living again"
From: Minas Morgul | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Mairon means "the Admirable", as mentioned above. Where does it come from? It's his original name, he isn't known as Sauron until the battle of Eregion.
From: Groningen, the Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2007
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In PE17 is also found a root MAY and Q. maira 'admirable, splendid sublime. only of great, august or splendid things'. There are earlier entries for MAY here too, and another has Q. maira 'admirable, excellent, precious'.
If so -on could be a masculine here, maira- losing its final -a in this composition, I suspect.
posted
The only other names for Sauron that I know are "the Necromancer" mentioned in the Hobbit, and the other one, his fair form, which I now forget.
Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Only to Lindon he did not come, for Gil-galad and Elrond doubted him and his fair-seeming, and though they knew not who in truth he was they would not admit him to that land. But elsewhere the Elves received him gladly, and few among them hearkened to the messengers from Lindon bidding them beware; for Sauron took to himself the name of Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, and they had at first much profit from his friendship.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- The grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.
From: Virgo Supercluster, 40º N 75º W | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
In early drafts of BoLT the name "Sauron the Excedingly Icky" was used twice, but I don't believe it survived the final edit.
From: northern hemisphere-ish | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Zigûr in Adunaic (means 'magician') Artano in quenya (means 'high smith', UT) and Aulendil in the UT, too.
From: Yoshi's Island | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I wonder why Gandalf would think that the Necromancer was one of the Nazgul, if he knew that they live or die along with Sauron? If he knew that the Nazgul were still alive, then why wouldn't he know that Sauron was still alive.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Sauron does not die. Therefor whether Sauron was alive or dead is not the issue here, and Gandalf knew that full well.
The destruction of the One Ring would however reduce Sauron to impotence, unable forever to take shape again, and bereft of powers he could use without shape. At least, that is what the wise surmised, but even Gandalf wasn't 100% sure of it.
The destruction of the One Ring would certainly mean that the other Great Rings, the Nine among them, would lose their powers, and that would mean that the Nazgûls indefinitely extended life would come to an end and their spirits would be released to leave Eä.
The separation of Sauron from the One Ring by Isildur at the end of the Second Age had, however, destroyed Sauron's shape. It had not destroyed his spirit, and as long as the One Ring existed, he would at some time be able to take shape again. How long that would take - well, only Ery knew.
So if Gandalf knew that there were still Nazgûl, he knew that the One Ring still existed. And he knew that Sauron might thus take shape again. But not whether he already could, let alone whether he already had.
No reason thus for him to assume that the Necromancer was Sauron. And even if Sauron had taken shape again, he could have taken himself off far to the east or south, and left Dol Guldur to a Nazgûl, as indeed he did when he re-entered Mordor afterwards.
So there is nothing illogical in Gandalf's evaluation of possibilities.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood? 'When either way may lead to evil, of what worth is choice? Let the Valar rule under Eru! - Tar Meneldur [UT 2 II:173-174]
From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I think Gandalf was suspicious of the shadow in Dol Guldor from the start. I don't think he ever believed it was just a Nazgul. He just couldn't prove anything. It was the other members of the White Council that prefered to think it was a Nazgul as they didn't want to to think that Sauron had returned. Weather Saruman had his own ideas is another matter, but he certainly didn't say anything to the Council!
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006
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![[]](icons/icon59.gif){kind=icon}
. Thanks for the clarifications!
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