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Minas Tirith Forums » History of Middle-earth » Was Andrast part of Gondor?
Author Topic: Was Andrast part of Gondor?
Vardamir Nolimon
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Was Andrast ever actually part of of the realm of Gondor? I think that I know why no Dunedain settled there (Druedain) but I'm not entirely sure if it was ever part of the Gondorean political entity.
From: City on a Hill | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thingol of Doriath
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quote:
The "Púkel-men" occupied the White Mountains (on both sides) in the First Age. When the occupation of the coastlands by the Númenóreans began in the Second Age they survived in the mountains of the promontory [of Andrast], which was never occupied by the Númenóreans. Another remnant survived at the eastern end of the range [in Anórien]. At the end of the Third Age the latter, much reduced in numbers, were believed to be the only survivors; hence the other region was called "the Old Púkel-wilderness" (Drúwaith laur). It remained a "wilder¬ness" and was not inhabited by Men of Gondor or of Rohan, and was seldom entered by any of them; but Men of the Anfalas believed that some of the old "Wild Men" still lived there secretly.

-"The Drúedain" Unfinished Tales

While Andrast did lie within the boundries, or at least sphere of influence, of Gondor(at one point at least)... I would say that it was never governed by Gondor. It was never occupied by Númenor, nor inhabited by Gondor. It was more likely a self-governing wilderness within a sparsely populated outlying part of Gondor.

I seem to recall some quote saying that the western boundry of Gondor at one point was the river Isen, though I can't find it. At any rate... when Cirion gave Rohan to Eorl he put the western boundry of Rohan at the river Isen, including the lands "that lay between the rivers Angren(Isen) and Adorn". The Adorn enters the Isen north-northwest of Ered Nimrais as the mountain chain descends south into Andrast. This land is beyond Andrast... so one could come to the conclusion that Gondor considered all of the land between Andrast and Isen to be theirs.

[ 09-13-2006, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Thingol of Doriath ]

From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Captain of Gondor
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Probably did. Gondorians, (sincethey were once the greatest nation ever) thought that all near them were inferior and all in thier bounds were thier lands.
From: Ririe, Idaho | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ulairë Gordis
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I think the Northern boundary of Gondor at the beginning (in Valandil's times for instance) was the river Gwathlo. Most of Tharbad was on the North bank and belonged to Arnor and later Cardolan, and the S. bank was held by Gondor.
If I remember this correctly, it means the promontory of Andrast was well within Gondor's territory.
Later, by Cirion and Eorl's times, Gondor's territory has likely diminished.

Anyway, I think Andrast was much like the Druedan forest: it belonged to Gondor but was not really ruled by it, remaining "wild".

From: Minas Morgul | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Snöwdog
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quote:
The "Púkel-men" occupied the White Mountains (on both sides) in the First Age. When the occupation of the coastlands by the Númenóreans began in the Second Age they survived in the mountains of the promontory [of Andrast], which was never occupied by the Númenóreans. Another remnant survived at the eastern end of the range. At the end of the Third Age the latter, much reduced in numbers, were believed to be the only survivors; hence the other region was called "the Old Púkel-wilderness" (Drúwaith laur). It remained a wilderness and was not inhabited by Men of Gondor or of Rohan, and was seldom entered by any of them; but Men of the Anfalas believed that some of the old "Wild Men" still lived there secretly.

-"The Drúedain" Unfinished Tales

When I look at maps in K.Fonstadt's Atlas, and consider the above excerpt from Unfinished Tales, It would seem the western boundary of Gondor south of the White Mountains was the River Lefnui. Now, the cape of Andrast was a prominent point on the ocean, and considering the troubles Gondor (and Rohan) had in later years with Corsair invaders along the coast, one would think that at least an outpost would have been established on the cape. It would have made military sense.
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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