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Minas Tirith Forums » The Hobbit » Is there any real-life isolated mountain like Erebor? (Page 2)
Author Topic: Is there any real-life isolated mountain like Erebor?
Sarah the Good Witch
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But it was pretty flat in toto []
If the nearest other mountains couldn't even be seen, then they'd be many miles away indeed.

According to the map, Erebor was at least 50 miles south of the nearest mountains of the Withered Heath, 120 miles west of the Iron Mountains, and 90 miles north-northeast of the Mountains of Mirkwood.

quote:
Just because you don't understand the table's concept of isolation doesn't mean it should be changed.
That not what you wrote. You wrote:
quote:
That isolation figure doesn't mean it's 4629 miles to the next peak, it means it 4629 miles to a higher peak.
If it means "distance to a higher peak," then obviously it can't mean itself. It would have to mean distance to an equally high or higher peak []
To wit:
quote:
Topographic isolation represents a radius of dominance in which the summit is the highest point.
Which is not what you wrote.

[ 05-01-2009, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Madomir
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quote:
If it means "distance to a higher peak," then obviously it can't mean itself. It would have to mean distance to an equally high or higher peak
So in order to appease your pathological need to always be correct you're clinging to excedingly flimsy semantics? []

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess []

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Sarah the Good Witch
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"Distance to the nearest higher peak" is not semantically different from "radius of dominance:" it's completely different.
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Madomir
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quote:
"Distance to the nearest higher peak" is not semantically different from "radius of dominance:" it's completely different.
[]

Draw imaginary lines in all directions from Denali. Stop when the first of those lines reaches an equal or higher peak. You've now established your radius of dominance which also happens to be the 'distance to the nearest higher peak'. For the purposes of that table the two terms are the same thing. Geometry isn't your strong suit I see. []

[ 05-03-2009, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Sarah the Good Witch
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Depending on what your meaning of "isn't" isn't. You didn't write "an equal or higher peak," you wrote "to a higher peak."
You look funny denying it right in front where it's written for all to see:

quote:
Ummm.. that isolation figure doesn't mean it's 4629 miles to the next peak, it means it 4629 miles to a higher peak.
Now you're claiming that you wrote "equal or higher:"

quote:
Draw imaginary lines in all directions from Denali. Stop when the first of those lines reaches an equal or higher peak.
You should work in politics, you'd fit right in... right next to Bill and Hillary.

[ 05-04-2009, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: Sarah the Good Witch ]

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Madomir
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quote:
You look funny denying it right in front where it's written for all to see:
[] This from the person claiming not to be arguing semantics? []

The burden isn't on me to allow for every possible set of circumstances when explaining somebody else's chart to you. The burden is on you to use a little common sense. Either you get it or you don't, and you obviously didn't. []

Case closed... say goodnite Gracie []

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danja.scott
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Sarah I found it!!!! There ARE mountains like the Lonely Mountain!!!

A monodock or inselberg is an isolated rock hill, knob, ridge, or small mountain that rises abruptly from a gently sloping or virtually level surrounding plain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inselberg

Wikipedia has a list of inselbergs that you can go through and google image search to find one that looks like more like the lonely mountain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inselbergs

My personal favorite is Double Mountain in Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Double_Mountain_Stonewall_County_Texas_2009.jpg

If that isn't satisfying enough, a butte (pronounced /ˈbjuːt/) is a conspicuous isolated hill with steep, often vertical sides and a small, relatively flat top; it is smaller than mesas, plateaus, and tables.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte

Normally I wouldn't compare a butte to the Lonely Mountain, but then I found Black Butte in Oregon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BlackButteOR_Russell_ric00804.jpg

Anyway, I learned a bit more about geology after researching this, and I hope this helps. Only thing I still don't understand is why you're so sure that the Lonely Mountain isn't volcanic?

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danja.scott
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Sarah, earlier you wrote:
quote:
Well again, Erebor was definitely not volcanic, as proven by the heavy content of gold, silver, and gems it contained, while the Arkenstone was likely some type of diamond.
I can disprove all parts of that statement, which means the Lonely Mountain could be a volcano afterall :

Diamonds
Diamond-bearing rock is brought close to the surface through deep-origin volcanic eruptions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond#Natural_history
This is not to say that volcanoes are the ones forming the diamonds, only that the volcanoes bring up the diamonds, meaning volcanic tubes would be a great source for, say, the Arkenstone.

Gems
Read this article showing that the origins of many gems are indeed volcanic:
http://nature.berkeley.edu/classes/eps2//wisc/Lect3.html

Gold and Silver
A volcano in Colombia is spewing more than a pound of gold each day into the atmosphere, a scientist said yesterday. He said the volcano was also depositing 45 pounds of gold a year into the rocks lining its crater.
Read the article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/28/world/fiery-volcano-in-colombia-spewing-gold.html
I am going to assume that if this is possible with gold, it is possible with silver.

Now, the Lonely Mountain would be an extinct volcano, not an active one like Mount Doom, but the possibility of it being volcanic in origin is not eliminated.

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Tigranes
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Очень интересно [] I shoulda remembered about the Arkenstone probably being a diamond of some kind, and hence probably of volcanic origin. []
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Cernunnos
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Ochen interesno?

I can transcribe, but not understand!

There are some well-known Inselbergen in NW Scotland, such as Suilven, which stand as prominent, isolated peaks in lower-lying (tho' certainly not flat) country. They were formed by the erosion of all but these remaining fragments of the original overlying strata over hundreds of millions of years. The mesas of Monument Valley were formed in a similar way (tho' not over such a vast time-span). Erebor, however, definitely looks like an extinct volcano in profile, with a prominent central peak and 'arms' extending in various directions which look very like ancient lava flows. It would appear also to be recent in geological terms, as it seems to have sufferered no deformation of its characteristic volcano-shape (eg by glaciation).

It may be noted that when JRRT was writing The Hobbit (and The Silmarillion), much less was known about the formation of mountains (orogeny) than is at present, now that the central importance of plate tectonics in the process is recognised. Tolkien nevertheless had quite enough general knowledge about geography to imagine his various mountains and hills as occurring in ranges, as they (mostly) actually do

[ 12-07-2009, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Tigranes
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> Very interesting.


quote:
It may be noted that when JRRT was writing The Hobbit (and The Silmarillion), much less was known about the formation of mountains (orogeny) than is at present, now that the central importance of plate tectonics in the process is recognised.
You mean Wegener's theory, I suppose? IIRC those were published somewhere in the forties (which would be between TH and LotR). My memory is a bit muddy though.
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Mithrennaith
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Well, Wegener first seems to have proposed his theory in 1915. However, it wasn't accepted until plate tectonics were discovered and proven in the 1960. And without the mechanism of plate tectonics, Wegener's theory in itself does not explain anything about orogenesis at all, so it's definitely the later and not the earlier theory that is needed here.
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Cernunnos
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Yes; it had long been noted that aspects of Earth geography/geology (like the correspondence in outline between eastern South America and western Africa coastlines) wd make sense if the continents had somehow 'moved about', but it was only in recent decades that the underlying mechanism began to be understood.

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Roll of Honor pi
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quote:
Then Bilbo saw a sight: The lands opened wide about him, filled with the waters of the river which broke up and wandered in a hundred winding courses, or halted in marshes and pools dotted with isles on every side: but still a strong water flowed on steadily through the midst. And far away, its dark head in a torn cloud, there loomed the Mountain! Its nearest neighbours to the North-East and the tumbled land that joined it to them could not be seen.
So not quite so alone as one might think. Part of a mountain chain, yet somewhat set apart.
Just emphasizing a book quote from before.

[ 12-11-2009, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: pi ]

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