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Author Topic: Bilbo and the ring
Teron
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Why didn't Bilbo feel like he was in a mist when he put on the ring?
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Ockle Burr
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I figure it's because Sauron wasn't bending his will toward finding the ring when Bilbo had it. He was busy being defeated at Dol Gulder and thought the ring was lost. Maybe when he gained knowledge that the ring still existed and sent the Nine abroad in Middle-earth, the clouds and mists were a result of their evil.

Or maybe it's that Tolkien didn't have the details of LotR in mind when he wrote The Hobbit.

[ 04-06-2007, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Ockle Burr ]

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Artaresto
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Since the Ring is said to more or less have a will on its own, I'll guess the latter one is a good explanation.

However, Tolkien was a man for details, so might he have missed this? []

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Hamfast Gamgee
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In the case of the Hobbit Tolkien didn't put in everything. Maybe this bit got edited out. Even the Hobbit had to be edited.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Actually, I am now feeling a lot better about things, in general.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
Why didn't Bilbo feel like he was in a mist when he put on the ring?
Only Sam ever felt like that; Frodo never did. It might be because Sam was so close to Mordor when he put on the Ring, and so he was more in the Wraith-world etc-- or maybe the Ring had a different effect on him than on Frodo, I can't say.

[ 04-21-2007, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Eldarion
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So, why was Sam not drawing the Wraiths to him then?
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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He was underground in Shelob's lair, and there were no Nazgûl around anyway. Also the Ring doesn't just draw Nazgûl when it's worn.

Sam also noticed his hearing was increased when he wore the Ring-- just as Frodo did after he was stabbed with the morgul-knife.

[ 04-23-2007, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Eldarion
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But shortly after they got out of the Tower Cirith Ungol, they felt a Nazgul fly overhead.

[ 04-23-2007, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Eldarion ]

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Roll of Honor Thorin
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No, the misty vision happened to Frodo too. Remember the Breaking of the Fellowship?

quote:
At first he could see little. He seemed to be in a world of mist in which there were only shadows: the Ring was upon him.
I agree with Okle Burr. I always thought that when Sauron was actively pursuing the Ring was when the obscured vision happened.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
But shortly after they got out of the Tower Cirith Ungol, they felt a Nazgul fly overhead.

That was some time afterward, and I think it had to do more with the alarm-bells of the Watchers.
Wearing the Ring had nothing to do with drawing the Nazgûl-- you're thinking of the movie. The Ring drew the Nazgûl by itself-- but generally when they were looking for it.

quote:
No, the misty vision happened to Frodo too. Remember the Breaking of the Fellowship?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At first he could see little. He seemed to be in a world of mist in which there were only shadows: the Ring was upon him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Okle Burr. I always thought that when Sauron was actively pursuing the Ring was when the obscured vision happened.

This is entirely out-of-context; this change to Frodo's vision occurred only when was sitting in the high seat of seeing at Amon Hen, where the Ring allowed him to see far and wide over the entire landscape of Middle-Earth, seeing Orthanc, Minas Tirith, Lórien and Barad-dûr etc. as well as troop-movements as if on a table.

Prior to this his vision was unchanged when he escaped from Boromir.
Likewise at Weathertop his vision was unchanged except that he could see the Nazgûl clearly in their human forms, even beneath their black robes.

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Aiwrendel
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quote:
Why didn't Bilbo feel like he was in a mist when he put on the ring?
Sauron and his Ring weren't powerful enough to influence Bilbo during most of the time he possessed it.

Sitting on the Seat of Seeing on Amon Hen is irrelavent. If anything sitting on the Seat cleared Frodo's vision. There is no mention of how well he could see while fleeing Boromir until...

quote:
Soon he came out alone on the summit of Amon Hen, and halted, gasping for breath. He saw as through a mist a wide flat circle paved with mighty flags, and surrounded with a crumbling battlement; and in the middle, set upon four carven pillars, was a high seat, reached by a stair of many steps.
quote:
Up he went and sat upon the ancient chair... At first he could see little. He seemed to be in a world of mist in which there were only shadows: the Ring was upon him. Then here and there the mist gave way
And then Frodo's sight was clear the whole time he sat there and remained clear after leaving the Seat and removing the Ring.

quote:
I agree with Okle Burr. I always thought that when Sauron was actively pursuing the Ring was when the obscured vision happened.
I think that's part of it since Sauron was seeking the Ring at that time but not during most of Bilbo's time.

But I think it's more when Sauron's direct influence is near than the actual wearing of the Ring (although that would exacerbate it.) That would include when someone was becoming overpowered by Sauron as in the events leading up to the Ford through the destruction of the Ring. Another example is the Ring-Wraiths lack of "normal" sight. Bilbo "owned" the Ring but was never close to being owned by it or under the influence of Sauron.
quote:
Slowly he drew it out. Bilbo put out his hand. But Frodo quickly drew back the Ring. To his distress and amazement he found that he was no longer looking at Bilbo; a shadow seemed to have fallen between them, and through it he found himself eyeing a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands. He felt a desire to strike him.
Frodo was under Sauron's influence through knife wound and possession of the Ring.

I can find no other mentions of loss of sight except those above and Mordor. None in the boat when Sam found Frodo escaping, no mention in Bree when he was crawling in the dark but still able to find Strider, Isildur didn't report any change, and none when Bilbo possessed the Ring.

hmmm. Isildur. I only checked the LoTR and Sil. Maybe someone else can check other sources?

[ 08-03-2012, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Aiwrendel ]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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Frodo wasn't wearing the Ring when Bilbo looked different to him; it seemed to be the Ring's influence affecting his mind. However that wasn't the case when he drew out the Ring at the Council of Elrond:
quote:
‘Bring out the Ring, Frodo!’ said Gandalf solemnly. ‘The time has come. Hold it up, and then Boromir will understand the remainder of his riddle.’
There was a hush, and all turned their eyes on Frodo. He was shaken by a sudden shame and fear; and he felt a great reluctance to reveal the Ring, and a loathing of its touch. He wished he was far away. The Ring gleamed and flickered as he held it up before them in his trembling hand.

However Sam perceived things differently when he wore the Ring in Cirith Ungol:
quote:
The world changed, and a single moment of time was filled with an hour of thought. At once he was aware that hearing was sharpened while sight was dimmed, but otherwise than in Shelob’s lair. All things about him now were not dark but vague; while he himself was there in a grey hazy world, alone, like a small black solid rock and the Ring, weighing down his left hand, was like an orb of hot gold. He did not feel invisible at all, but horribly and uniquely visible; and he knew that somewhere an Eye was searching for him.
He heard the crack of stone, and the murmur of water far off in Morgul Vale; and down away under the rock the bubbling misery of Shelob, groping, lost in some blind passage; and voices in the dungeons of the tower; and the cries of the Orcs as they came out of the tunnel; and deafening, roaring in his ears, the crash of the feet and the rending clamour of the Orcs before him. He shrank against the cliff. But they marched up like a phantom company, grey distorted figures in a mist, only dreams of fear with pale flames in their hands. And they passed him by.

Then when he follows the orcs to the under-gate:
quote:
It no longer seemed very dark to him in the tunnel, rather it was as if he had stepped out of a thin mist into a heavier fog.
Here it seems that the closer he gets to Mordor and direct sight of Barad-dûr, the more distorted his vision becomes, while other senses become sharper; this seems to resemble the Nazgul perception of the world:
quote:
Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on again. Immediately he felt the great burden of its weight, and felt afresh, but now more strong and urgent than ever, the malice of the Eye of Mordor, searching, trying to pierce the shadows that it had made for its own defence, but which now hindered it in its unquiet and doubt.
As before, Sam found that his hearing was sharpened, but that to his sight the things of this world seemed thin and vague. The rocky walls of the path were pale, as if seen through a mist, but still at a distance he heard the bubbling of Shelob in her misery; and harsh and clear, and very close it seemed, he heard cries and the clash of metal. He ran forward to the climbing path, and over it. At once the road turned left and plunged steeply down. Sam had crossed into Mordor.
He took off the Ring, moved it may be by some deep premonition of danger, though to himself he thought only that he wished to see more clearly. ‘Better have a look at the worst,’ he muttered. ‘No good blundering about in a fog!’
Hard and cruel and bitter was the land that met his gaze.

That's the only instance I can find, the to Mordor anyone gets where there is a description of what they see while wearing the Ring.
Frodo, of course, wore it inside Mt. Doom, but gave no account of what he saw.

[ 09-16-2012, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

From: The Island Previously Known as Numenor | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hamfast Gamgee
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I think Frodo was a bit too far gone by then to account anything.
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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