Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
 
Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Sil = Elder Edda?
Author Topic: Sil = Elder Edda?
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2041

posted      Profile for The DarkQueen Iauraearien   Author's Homepage   Email The DarkQueen Iauraearien   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I was listening to a book programme on the radio the other day and, among other things, they were talking about Norse mythology and Tolkien. It was mentioned that The Silmarillion was basically the Elder Edda, with a few changed names and a few more morals.

Your thoughts on this?

[ 12-13-2013, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

From: Mordor | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Snöwdog
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 15

posted      Profile for Snöwdog   Author's Homepage   Email Snöwdog   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Plagiarism!
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hamfast Gamgee
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5528

posted      Profile for Hamfast Gamgee   Author's Homepage   Email Hamfast Gamgee   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Which way round? []
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2041

posted      Profile for The DarkQueen Iauraearien   Author's Homepage   Email The DarkQueen Iauraearien   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well, unless Tolkien was writing pre-10th-Century... []
From: Mordor | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't read EE, but I have read Nibelungenlied and the Volsunga saga. They tell more or less the same story as EE.

I fact, there are many simmilarities between the two and Tolkien's works, for instance:
- a hero slaying a dragon, attacking the beast from beneath (Sigurd slaying Fafnir -> Turin+Glaurung and Bard+Smaug)
- a sexual relationship between siblings (Sigmund&Signy -> Turin&Nienor)
- a sword being broken, later reforged for an heir of its owner (Gram, Sigmund's sword, reforged by Regin for Sigurd, Sigmund's son -> Narsil reforged for Aragorn)
- an old wandering man giving advice, in fact being a god or sth simmilar (Odin -> Gandalf)

Sorry, but I don't have much time now, I'll try to point out some more during the weekend

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
So:

- the dragonslayer receiving information from a bird (Sigurd -> Bard)
- mortality whcich must be accepted (Brynhild, punished by Odin -> different fates of elves and men)
- an immortal woman becomes mortal (Brynhild -> Luthien, Arwen)
- a shieldmaiden changing her lifestyle and getting married (Brynhild -> Eowyn)
- self-immolation on a pyre (Brynhild -> Denethor)
- a symbolical tree dying (Yggdrasil -> White Tree of Gondor, the Two Trees of Valinor)
- a fight between a dog and a wolf:

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, my computer had an interesting idea to post without me clicking "post". Strange but true.

...
- a fight between a dog and a wolf:
1) Tolkien: all Huan's fights
2) Volsunga saga: the Hundings (meaning 'tribe of a dog') fighting Sigmund, who often used a wolf's disguise
- the one who took the dragon's treasure dies soon after that (Sigurd -> Thorin)

Tolkien knew all those Norse myths very well, so he's been inspired by them. The names of Gandalf and the 13 dwarves come also from sth Norvegian.
Probably there are hundreds of other examples.

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2041

posted      Profile for The DarkQueen Iauraearien   Author's Homepage   Email The DarkQueen Iauraearien   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
He's less inspired by them and more just rewriting them from what they said on the programme. I haven't read the Elder Edda myself, so I couldn't comment on the similaries here, but I have noticed that a LOT of stuff is just straight from Norse mythology.
From: Mordor | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, that's true.
And in the case of "The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun", Tolkien didn't even change the Norse world into ME. []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2041

posted      Profile for The DarkQueen Iauraearien   Author's Homepage   Email The DarkQueen Iauraearien   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
He didn't for Gawain and the Green Knight either, but that's not in the Sil. []
From: Mordor | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Sil = Elder Edda?
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1