posted
I'm wondering if Tolkien wrote anything about where Aman went. The Silmarillion said it was "above Ilmen," which is above the sky where the stars are; however given where is it beyond that? Was there supposed to be an island floating in orbit around the Earth or sun?
From: The Island Previously Known as Numenor | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
I think it was more taking out of our dimension( to use a Sci-fi term) totally and cannot be reached by mortals using any physical form of transport. Nor the other way round. The Elves and Valar are seperated from Aman for ever one supposes and there can be no contact. And as the ages wear on even things like sending out the Istrai become impossible.
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006
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But still within The Circles of the World, I presume? And why would it change with time? The Istari came to Middle Earth from Aman after the Fall of Numenor, and so did Glorfindel I assume. However once Sauron and his works perished, there would be no further need to do so.
[ 08-13-2011, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]
From: The Island Previously Known as Numenor | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote: But still within The Circles of the World, I presume?
Yes that's right; Aman was still within the world and its time -- which the Elves, for obvious example (that no one asked for), could not escape until the End.
quote: And why would it change with time? The Istari came to Middle Earth from Aman after the Fall of Numenor, and so did Glorfindel I assume. However once Sauron and his works perished, there would be no further need to do so.
In Glorfindel I Glorfindel came to Middle-earth as a companion to Gandalf. In Glorfindel II Tolkien seems to have decided on the Second Age rather, before the Fall of Numenor. This idea appears to have followed the first one (not surprisingly, given the 'titles' of the Glorfindel essays), and I get the impression that the Istari mission was special enough for their passage to Middle-earth after the removal -- but Glorfindel's return, if now not with Gandalf I guess, would be better placed before the removal.
And although not so much where Aman went, with respect to existence in Aman anyway, Tolkien once noted...
quote: 'the exact nature of existence in Aman or Eressea after their "removal" must be dubious and unexplained', as must the question of 'how "mortals" could go there at all.'
posted
Now that seems a little like a cop-out from the Author if I might be so bold! However, remember that as time went on and the 2nd age went to the 3rd age and so on that links between Aman and the world became more and more remote. Glorfindel's journey for example happened even before Valinor was removed from the world and the intervention of the Istrai was pretty much a one of. And in the Fourth age and after became the world of Man and issues like Magic and other creatures became less and less relevant and so do one presumes the waning influence of the Valar and any further Eru intervention.
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Iluvatar would continue to intervene according to his own designs after the end of the Third Age.
I have always pictured Aman as becoming its own physical world located elsewhere in Ea, not necessarily in Arda (the Solar System). However, near the end of his life Tolkien seemed to feel it was no longer in the "physical" realm of existence.
From Letter 325, written in 1971:
quote:The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman – the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar – set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those few 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.
[ 10-13-2011, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Michael Martinez ]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- Author of Visualizing Middle-earth, Parma Endorion: Essays on Middle-earth, 3rd edition, and Understanding Middle-earth.
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However, remember that as time went on and the 2nd age went to the 3rd age and so on that links between Aman and the world became more and more remote. Glorfindel's journey for example happened even before Valinor was removed from the world and the intervention of the Istrai was pretty much a one of. And in the Fourth age and after became the world of Man and issues like Magic and other creatures became less and less relevant and so do one presumes the waning influence of the Valar and any further Eru intervention.
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