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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » What do you think of Fëanor? (Page 1)
Author Topic: What do you think of Fëanor?
Curufinwe Lord of Noldor
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After going through My post "Was Thingol too harsh?" I decided to post this question from the answers i got from that post.


Do you think that Fëanor's (And His sons) deeds were rash? Explain! []


I would havbe to say that I believe he was too rash and should not have slayed his kin for the Silmarils, but bought them or tried trading them. Even Seizing them didnt have to go as far as he and his sons did. I believe the Kinslaying at Alqualondë was the worse thing that Fëanor could have done, but i do not think that their oath was evil. Because he was mad at the Valar, fore they didn't protect the people of their lands, (Melkor walked up to the door of Formenos and slew his father...) Therefore i believe that the Oath, Although going a little far by Calling everlasting Darkness on themselves and Cursing by the Name of Iluvatar was definitelly a bad idea. But the Silmarils were wrought by his hands, and it is not his fault that The Valar could not stop Ungoliant from Defiling the Trees, Yavanna had no right to the Silmarils, the Light was preserved by the Arts of Fëanor alone. and therfore NO elf had right to them except the Kin of Fëanor and his sons.

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Arnkell
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But the light belonged not to Fëanor and his kin alone, but all the elves of Aman. He chose to forget that, thinking the Silmaríls his creation and possession alone.

You know, I don't think this thread will do much good, it'll just become another flamefest.
The Fëanor-apologists steadfastly refuse to abandon the Oath of their rockstar-hero as if their pride depended upon it, and we others refuse to compromise our grasp of right/wrong, just/unjust war and listening/coercing.

There is no moral justification for his actions but they of course contributed to the story and the prophecy and Morgoth sure got his eventually and everything turned out dandy in the end with Frodo and Bilbo doing singalongs in Valinor with Ingwë, Tulkas and Círdan yadda yadda.

I might as well bring up another point I held back in the other thread.
Fëanor did use coercion and persuasive tricks in his pitch to the crowds at the Darkening of Valinor;
"Fëanor was a master of words, and his tongue had great power over hearts when he would use it; /.../
(during his speech) His wrath and his hate were given most to Morgoth, and yet well nigh all that he said came from the very lies of Morgoth himself;
/.../ Little foresight could there be for those who dared to take so dark a road. Yet all was done in over-haste; for Fëanor drove them on, fearing lest in the cooling of their hearts his words should wane and other counsils yet prevail; and for all his porud words he did not forget the power of the Valar."


This is the method Jehova's Witnesses use in their door-to-door services, like all other door-salesmen, pleading to the heart and the feeling there and then, subtly forcing the subject to make a quick decision, making sure the subject don't have time to develop "cognitive dissonance".
Then, when their prey has committed themselves, they can relax. If he/she backs out now, they have his Word on paper, that they can use against him.

Fëanor actually did the same twist of the truth when trying to coerce the Teleri;
'You renounce your friendship, even in the hour of our need,' he said. 'Yet you were glad indeed to receive our aid when you came at last to these shores, fainthearted loiterers, and wellnigh emptyhanded. In huts on the beaches would you be dwelling still, had not the Noldor carved out your haven and toiled upon your walls.'

But Olwë answered: 'We renounce no friendship. But it may be the part of a friend to rebuke a friend's folly. And when the Noldor welcomed us and gave us aid, otherwise then you spoke: in the land of Aman we were to dwell for ever, as brothers whose houses stand side by side. But as for our white ships: those you gave us not'.

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Curufinwe Lord of Noldor
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"His wrath and his hate were given most to Morgoth, and yet well nigh all that he said came from the very lies of Morgoth himself;"

This is True although the Elves knew not that they were lies but thought that evil was brewing between the elves, and that the Noldor were the cause of it. The truth is that Melkor was The Cause of the Strife between the Noldor and the Other elven houses.

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Hidalgo
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I like Fëanor.
He was not perfect, but IMHO he was not evil either. The worst things he did were:
a) Creating weapons in Valinor.
b) Threatening his (half)brother with a sword.
c) Refusing to give the light of the Silmarils to the Valar after the destruction of the Trees.
d) Swearing to recover the Silmarils no matter what.
e) Decide to leave Aman and return to Middle-Earth.
f) The kin-slaying of Alqualönde.
g) Burning the ships in Losgar.

a) Seems horrible (creating weapons in a peaceful land) until you think about it. Was it that bad? Those weapons were not useless. If Finwë had had a weapon to defend himself maybe he wouldn't had died at Formenos. Seeing what happened when Ungoliant and Melkor attacked Aman it is obvious that the Valar were unable to defend the Noldor all the time.
b) Obviously a wrong thing to do. But understandable in my opinion. He mistrusted Fingolfin as much as Fingolfin mistrusted him. Fëanor's words at that moment show that he feared Fingolfin was trying to poison Finwë's mind against him. Who wouldn't have reacted in such a circumstance?
c) It was his jewels we are talking about. His to give or refuse them.
Remember this:
quote:
But Aule the Maker said: 'Be not hasty! We ask a greater thing than thou knowest. Let him have peace yet awhile.'

But Feanor spoke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.'

Had he to die just because the Valar were unable to defend the Trees?
d) See above. The Silmarils were his. What is wrong in deciding to recover his own?
e) Why should he have stayed in Aman? Because the Valar said so? Who were they to give him any order?
f) Unjustifiable. But understandable. He was desperate to return to Middle-Earth and getting those ships seemed the only possible way of doing it.
g) Wrong, and specially stupid. The burning of the ships in Losgar is something I've never understood. What did he decide to burn the ships? If he didn't want Fingolfin and his host with him, why did he bothered to persuade him to follow him? How was it possible to see the light of the burning across an Ocean as Fingolfin did? And after the ships where burned and he felt betrayed, why did Fingolfin decide to cross across Helcaraxe? Why didn't he call it a day and returned to Aman as Finarfin had done?
IMHO we weren't told the real story. Remember that in the Third Age there were no more of Fëanor's kin to tell their version of the story.

Besides:
quote:
"Then Feanor ran from the Ring of Doom, and fled into the night; for his father was dearer to him then the light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands; and who among sons, of elves or of men, have held their fathers of greater worth?"
Let's compare him with Thingol, who exchanged his daughter for a Silmaril. Is Fëanor the evil guy? Or just the one who left no living descendant to defend his name?

About his sons: What did Maedhros and Maglor ever do that can be considered as evil? I admit that Caranthir Celegorm and Curufin were really nasty, and we were not given any information about Amrod and Amras, but Maedhros and Maglor are among the best Elves ever.

[ 06-10-2004, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Hidalgo ]

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Telperaca
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I like Feanor. He is brave and he made the Silmarilis so that was great. But he's also slightly bigheaded so that annoys me at time [] - but apart from that, he's a pretty cool character []

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Hi! My name is Telpy and I'm a Skittle-addict.

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Fëanor's cool and all, but he really needs to stick with a language, there. Fëa is Quenya and nor is Sindarin. Make up yer mind already! []
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Hidalgo
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Actually, I believe his name was Fëanaro, but those evil Sindar fooled everyone into speaking their clearly inferior language.
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Roll of Honor Aikanáro
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Nolofinwë was very ambitious. He thought he should have been high king after Finwë, he spoke against Fëanáro in Tirion. In the Shibboleth:

'Moreover, I have an errand in Middle Earth, the avenging of my father's death. Fëanáro seeks first his stolen treasures' (quote from memory, will edit later)

This compounded to hiom taking Finwë's name would have given the impression that he did intend to supplant his brother. But in this he seemed to have been conflicted, as before this he had said:

'Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide us'

And in the end he did follow. As for the Helcaraxë - his people had no wish to return and ask the Valar's pardon when they were in the right. This also proves that it wasn't simply Fëanáro's words that drove them forward, they did share his ideals.

Regarding coercion - he didn't sit down and plan that speech in Tirion, decide precisely which techniques he'd use to appeal to the people. He wasn't trying to manipulate, but to convince, the same as anyone does when explaining their point of view. You can't fault him for being a good public speaker! There were no 'tricks' involved, he felt this strongly.

And he does have a point about Olwë. Olwë's reply is the twisting of the truth, in fact. Yes, he said they would live as brothers in Aman, but circumstances have changed immensely, in ways not even imagined then! If the Teleri had lent him their ships willingly, he would not have burnt them in anger with them and with Nolofinwë.

Horseman - []

Hidalgo - []

[ 06-10-2004, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Aikanáro ]

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Halion
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Éomer and Hidalgo, the origin of Fëanor is given in 'The Shibboleth of Fëanor' published in HoMe XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth:
quote:
Fëanor is the form nearly always used in histories and legends, but is as it stands only half Sindarized: the genuine Sindarin form was Faenor; the form Fëanor ... probably arose through scribal confusion, especially in documents written in Quenya, in which ea was frequent but ae did not normally occur.

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Dark Lord Andúril
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Curufinwe, this thread may interest you.
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Curufinwe Lord of Noldor
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-Seeing what happened when Ungoliant and Melkor attacked Aman it is obvious that the Valar were unable to defend the Noldor all the time.-


Plus the People of Valinor were at a great feast at the time Ungoliant and Melkor attacked, So it is there fault that they did not leave guards or watch's out, fore didn't they know that Melkor was still somewhere in Valinor at the time?

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Arnkell
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Hidalgo: "d) See above. The Silmarils were his. What is wrong in deciding to recover his own?"

You are wrong, Hidalgo. You people really don't read others' posts before posting yourself, do you?
Silm., P.69;
"For Fëanor began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love, and grudged the sight of them to all save his father and his seven sons; he seldom remembered now that the light within them was not his own."

He provided three marvelous vessels, true, but the thing that made them special came not from his arts, but from the trees. His lack of humility and perception was his downfall, in more ways than one.

I have already shown passages and comments that prove Fëanor's less than ethical methods of conviction, consisting of twisted truths ("The Valar are keeping M-E from us!!"), a sales pitch about the lands of M-E which he had no experience of or guarantee for, he had been told of them by Melkor ("the greater part of the Noldor there assembled he set aflame with the desire of new things and strange countries") and the same kind of twisted plans of world domination that Saruman had thought about;
"But when we have conquered and have regained the Silmarils, then we and we alone shall be lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and beauty of Arda. No other race shall oust us!"

These are words from an elitist, unscroupulous madman, not a good leader. Since he slaughtered a large population of his former friends of the Teleri, and left his half-brother to die in the snowy north (Fëanor's sister-in-law died because of this), he would have no problem waging war upon humans and dwarves standing between him and a particularily tempting piece of land, or worse, the Silmarils.
Thank goodness he died as early as he did. []

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Roll of Honor Aikanáro
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The light of the trees overall did not belong to him, no. But the Silmarilli certainly did. He made them! Who would you say has the right to them? There are only three of them, they can't be shared out between everybody, if that's what you think should be done with them. It would have been impossible.

What's so hard to understand? He made them, they are his! Sure, he might have been inspired and/or influenced by any number of things, but as was said in another thread, do you consider the one who cut the wood used to make a chair the rightful owner of that chair?

Could any other have made the Silmarilli? It was Fëanáro's skill that made them what they were.

As for persuasion - he believed the Noldor would be better off in Middle Earth than in Aman. He was trying to do what he thought best for his people. He did not would to 'stay longer in the same land as the kin of his father's slayer, and the thief of his treasure'. Is that such a wrong thing to think?

And the idea of leaving Nolofinwë's host behind was that they'd go back to Valinor, they'd 'whine their way back to the cages of the Valar.' It was never his intention for them to cross the Helcaraxë and lose so many, they did that that out of their own bravery and initiative.

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Roll of Honor -Laurelin-
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quote:
And looking out from the slopes of Ered Wethrin with his last sight he beheld far off the peaks of Thangorodrim, mightiest of the towers of Middle-earth, and knew with the foreknowledge of death that no power of the Noldor would ever overthrow them; but he cursed the name of Morgoth thrice, and laid it upon his sons to hold to their oath, and to avenge their father. Then he died...
So basically, he sent his sons to a same bitter death. Why not repent of his folly instead.
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Roll of Honor Éomer
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quote:
Éomer and Hidalgo, the origin of Fëanor is given in 'The Shibboleth of Fëanor'...
I already knew about that, but thanks for posting it anyway. []

::really, really needs to get his hands on a copy of HoMe XII, and not just for The Shibboleth::

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Éoric of the Riddermark
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quote:
So basically, he sent his sons to a same bitter death. Why not repent of his folly instead.
It's called hubris.
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Arnkell
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Aikanáro: "Who would you say has the right to them? There are only three of them, they can't be shared out between everybody, if that's what you think should be done with them."

After the War of Wrath, Eönwë explained that the Sons of Fëanor, through their merciless and evil deeds, had forfeited the right to the Silmarils, and that they should be brought back into the West, where they might actually do some good.

Since the remaining Sons of Fëanor had lost the right to the Silmarils and were in fact burned and hurt mentally and physically when touching them, Fëanor too would've been hurt by their presence or touch, as is customary when "fallen" people, who have done evil to get the stones, touch them (Melkor, Carcaroth, Maedhros, Maglor).
The Kinslaying would've been more than enough to trigger this.

Aikanáro also wrote: "As for persuasion - he believed the Noldor would be better off in Middle Earth than in Aman. He was trying to do what he thought best for his people. He did not would to 'stay longer in the same land as the kin of his father's slayer, and the thief of his treasure'. Is that such a wrong thing to think?"

Are you actually defending Melkor's version of events?

First of all, the Noldor weren't better off in Middle Earth, that was a lie constructed by Melkor to sow seeds of miscomfort among the Noldor, as you well know. Fëanor had never even been there in his whole life, he was as easily fooled as many poor european settlers were tricked (by salesmen and recruiters roaming the countryside for victims) into emigrating to America, 'where the carrots grow six feet tall and there is land for everyone (forget the indians)'. The gullible Fëanor then used this information as leverage when convincing the other Noldor that this was "THE DEAL OF THE MILLENNIUM!".

Fëanor's ideas of what was "best for his people" were as misguided as Ar-Pharazon's ideas for his people, because both ambitions where formed by Melkor and Sauron respectively, and neither peoples had any natural right to the places they tried to claim.

Secondly, the bit about the Valar "being of the same kin" as Melkor is a lie as well, none of the Valar are evil beings, Melkor had stopped being a Vala the moment he rebelled against Eru and no longer was counted among the 15.

Every adult person has to be held ultimately responsible for all her actions. It was Fëanor's responsibility to discriminate when being faced with the lies of Melkor, Melkor saw what a huge chip on his shoulder this guy had, and how easily it could be exploited.
Melkor also knew that if he controlled the Silmarils, he controlled Fëanor, like a puppy jumping for a bone, yet another reason for Fëanor to not have attached himself so much to something that after the Darkening should've been shared with others.

The only way to beat an evil being like Melkor or Sauron is by being better than them, refusing to give into the same methods that they use. It was the only way the free peoples could defeat Sauron, by destroying the Ring instead of using it (Sauron was hoping they would try and use It). Had Gondor used the Ring, they would immediately have been put on a playing field on which Sauron and Melkor were the masters.

Fëanor wasn't a genuinly good person, he couldn't keep the higher moral ground over Melkor but tried to beat him at his own game; Hate, War, Vengeance and Indiscriminate killing, all of which Tolkien was against.
This fact, coupled with Fëanor's tactically unsound urge for combat and his uncontrolled lust for the Silmarils was why Fëanor failed, he let himself sink to Melkor's level (who also felt the lust).

Fëanor's greedy clinging to the Jewels are also rather similar to the Numenoreans' obsession with life, both led to their obsessor's destruction and could've been avoided if both parties had kept an open mind and confided in friends. I believe this was Tolkien's message.

[ 06-10-2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Arnkell ]

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Cirion
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I like Fëanor beacause he is the most real of Tolkien's charactors in the Sim besides Turin. He is passionate and brave. He also has human qualitys by being angry and possesive. That is what makes him so attractive.
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Master of Doom
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Straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
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Son_of_Feanor
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I think Feanor and his sons are the coolest group in all of middle earth. The Noldor were better off in ME, they thought so themselves at the feast held by Fingolfin years after Feanor died.
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Roll of Honor Aikanáro
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Arnkell, I know that's what happened in the Silmarillion. But think about it a minute. What right does Eönwë have to say whether or not Fëanáro's sons can have the Silmarilli? They belong to the remaining sons via inheritance! There were a lot of people out there wanting to take these jewels. The difference with Fëanáro's sons is that they actually owned them, and were trying to get them back. Eönwë taking them is indicative of the very same Valarin control that Fëanáro spoke against.

I do not for one minute think that he'd have been burnt by the Silmarilli - he is their creator, and say what you might about the light, without him they'd never have come into being. I consider Maedhros and Maglor's being burnt by them as one of the most tragic moments in the Silmarillion, after the effort they'd put in and the way they'd suffered trying to reclaim them.

Alright, so Fëanáro listened to Morgoth. Was it not the Valar who thought Morgoth was no longer evil and let him free again? And are you saying that Cuiviénen was not all these things he said it was? There must have been elves present who had taken part in the Great Journey, yet they did not say that he was wrong.

Morgoth did tell him some lies, and he half-believed them.. He knew no better, and Morgoth knew exactly how to play on his insecurities regarding his half-siblings and such. But that does not make him evil! He was just, as you say, gullible then, too trusting. But even then he did not follow blindly, that is simply not in his character. So you cannot say he was taken in entirely by Morgoth, I'm sure he made up his own mind on things. And Morgoth was soon revealed to all as the evil he really was - then everyuone knew better than to listen to him.

The things I mentioned, however, were not lies. Morgoth was a Vala, even if the others chose not to acknowledge that. He was Manwë's brother, in fact. And while that in no way means all the other Valar were evil, it does explain why distrust would seem wise, after what Morgoth did.

You can't compare him to the Númenóreans. They had no right to an immortal lifespan, it was not the natural way of things. (yes, I've read the Athrabeth - at this point it wasn't, in any case) The Silmarilli belonged to Fëanáro. It's ridiculous to say it was 'greedy clinging.' They were his!

Fëanáro was a good person. He sought only to take back the light which Morgoth unjustly withheld, no doubt with the same purposes in mind as when he destroyed the trees, and to ensure his father's murderer was brought to justice.

[ 06-11-2004, 01:35 AM: Message edited by: Aikanáro ]

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Hidalgo
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Curufinwe Lord of Noldor:
quote:
Plus the People of Valinor were at a great feast at the time Ungoliant and Melkor attacked, So it is there fault that they did not leave guards or watch's out, fore didn't they know that Melkor was still somewhere in Valinor at the time?
Yes. They had been fighting Melkor since the creation of Arda yet they didn't know his nature. They had captured him but released him later.

Arnkell:
quote:
Hidalgo: "d) See above. The Silmarils were his. What is wrong in deciding to recover his own?"

You are wrong, Hidalgo. You people really don't read others' posts before posting yourself, do you?
Silm., P.69;
"For Fëanor began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love, and grudged the sight of them to all save his father and his seven sons; he seldom remembered now that the light within them was not his own."

If I take a marvellous picture of something beautiful, that picture is mine, even if the original object isn't. Had the Valar originally said "Hey, it is our light that you are storing there", they might have a claim to it. But they didn't. They blessed the Silmarils and let him keep them until the moment came when they thought they needed them. If I give you something, and don't tell you that you have to give it back to me after some time, then what I gave you is yours, and no longer mine.
quote:
I have already shown passages and comments that prove Fëanor's less than ethical methods of conviction, consisting of twisted truths ("The Valar are keeping M-E from us!!"),
Didn't they? When the Valar met the Elves they decided to bring those Elves to Aman instead of going themselves to Cuineven, which would have beeen easier and more logical. Why didn't they?
quote:
a sales pitch about the lands of M-E which he had no experience of or guarantee for, he had been told of them by Melkor
I don't have the Sill with me right now, but I remember Fëanaro saying that "He prefered the incertitude of ME to the servitude of Aman", or something similar. He never hid there were dangers in MT, he just said he was willing to face those dangers.
quote:
and the same kind of twisted plans of world domination that Saruman had thought about
No. Saruman was evil because he was trying to dominate others agaisnt their will. Fëanaro just wanted to recover his own and revenge his father. Those who followed him did it willinglly.
quote:
and left his half-brother to die in the snowy north (Fëanor's sister-in-law died because of this)
No. he left them in the coast near Alqualönde.
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After the War of Wrath, Eönwë explained that the Sons of Fëanor, through their merciless and evil deeds, had forfeited the right to the Silmarils, and that they should be brought back into the West, where they might actually do some good.
And who was Eönwë to decide that? Who had appointed him judge? What was him, but other thief who retained the Silmarils from their rightful owners?
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First of all, the Noldor weren't better off in Middle Earth, that was a lie constructed by Melkor to sow seeds of miscomfort among the Noldor, as you well know. Fëanor had never even been there in his whole life, he was as easily fooled as many poor european settlers were tricked (by salesmen and recruiters roaming the countryside for victims) into emigrating to America, 'where the carrots grow six feet tall and there is land for everyone (forget the indians)'. The gullible Fëanor then used this information as leverage when convincing the other Noldor that this was "THE DEAL OF THE MILLENNIUM!".
See above. Fëanaro never hid the dangers of the journey and the settlement in MT.
Btw: Either Fëanaro believed it (and was gullible, as you said) or didn't believe it (and was lying, as you also said) but you can't have it both ways.
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Fëanor's ideas of what was "best for his people" were as misguided as Ar-Pharazon's ideas for his people, because both ambitions where formed by Melkor and Sauron respectively, and neither peoples had any natural right to the places they tried to claim.
Sorry? What lands did Fëanaro claim and who owned them? ME was practically empty when he left Aman. There was place enpugh for 12 hosts like his there, and that is just counting the fertile lands.
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Secondly, the bit about the Valar "being of the same kin" as Melkor is a lie as well, none of the Valar are evil beings, Melkor had stopped being a Vala the moment he rebelled against Eru and no longer was counted among the 15.
Do you know what kin means? Melkor and Manwë were brothers. Isn't that kin?
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Every adult person has to be held ultimately responsible for all her actions. It was Fëanor's responsibility to discriminate when being faced with the lies of Melkor, Melkor saw what a huge chip on his shoulder this guy had, and how easily it could be exploited.
In that case it is each Noldo's responsability to follow Fëanaro or not.
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Melkor also knew that if he controlled the Silmarils, he controlled Fëanor, like a puppy jumping for a bone, yet another reason for Fëanor to not have attached himself so much to something that after the Darkening should've been shared with others.
Wrong, Melkor never suspected that Féanaro would follow him, and was quite surprised when he did.
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The only way to beat an evil being like Melkor or Sauron is by being better than them, refusing to give into the same methods that they use.
The only way to beat evilness is fighting it, not remaining passive like the Valar did.
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Sauron was hoping they would try and use It
No. Sauron feared someone powerful enough would use it and take his (Sauron's) place as Dark Lord.

-Laurelin-:
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So basically, he sent his sons to a same bitter death. Why not repent of his folly instead.
Because honour forces a man (or an elf) to keep his word and maintain his oaths.

[ 06-15-2004, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Hidalgo ]

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Thingol of Doriath
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Hidalgo-

quote:
No. he left them in the coast near Alqualönde.

No. He left them in the frozen north.

quote:
The Noldor came at last far into the north of Arda; and they saw the first teeth of the ice that floated in the Sea... therefore Fëanor halted and the Noldor debated what course they should now take. But they began to suffer anguish from the cold, and the clinging mists through which no gleam of star could pierce.
Not Alqualondë... Fëanor left them "suffering anguish" in the cold.

quote:
Because honour forces a man (or an elf) to keep his word and maintain his oaths.
How noble! [] So, the man thought his honour was more important than the lives of his children and his people? Nice man... I would gladly give up my honour to save my family. But, hey! That's just me. []

[ 06-11-2004, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: Singollo of Doriath ]

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Hidalgo
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quote:
How noble! So, the man thought his honour was more important than the lives of his children and his people? Nice man... I would gladly give up my honour to save my family. But, hey! That's just me.
Nobody forced them to pronounce the Oath. They did it willingly and without anyone's prompting. When one pronounces an oath, he is bound to obey it. If he can find a way to fulfill that oath without suffering everything is perfect. If not, well, I'd rather lose everything rather than my honour.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am unworthy to remain a citizen of MT, so pay no heed to my words.

In Deo Spes Mea.

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Roll of Honor Aikanáro
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Er...either way, it's sort of irrelevant, as his sons had sworn the oath anyway. None of them could just forget about it even if they'd wanted to.

And as I said, Fëanáro fully expected those he left in Araman to go back to Valinor. He underestimated their determination. You make it sound as if he was purposely leaving them to die there.

From: Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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