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Author Topic: Elven Powers
The Last of the Noldor
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What did Tolkien mean by strenth of mind?
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Dark Lord Andúril
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Erm, strength of will. Strength not to be overpowerd by the will of another.
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Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
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Andrúil is certainly right, but I believe in addition he also meant their mental strengths, such as intelligence.
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Roll of Honor Glorfindel of Los 'lóriol
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Yeah, Finrod seems to hit it closer, because didnt the dwarves also have the power not to be 'overpowerd by the will of another'.
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Melkor, The Fallen
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True on both counts, while the Dwarves are stubborn of mind, and willful, Dwarves focus well on completing tasks, but they tend to have very narrow interests. I feel that Eru granted the elves such "strength of mind" to allow them to endure the doom of "immortality". The Elves and some very few Men of "westernesse" influence were not easy prey for Melkor or Sauron because of their "Strength of Mind" and where not as prone to "the bending of the mental knee". Sauron for the most part seemed to be more pragmatic then his former boss, he did not even try to influence the elves. He concentrated on the weakest of wills....Men.
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Nash Rómerandir
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Isn't it somehow what Frodo saw of Glorfindel while he was on the way to Rivendell, slowly drifting into the "spirit world"?

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The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. - H.P. Lovecraft

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Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
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No, that was because elves co-exist on both the spiritual and the physical plane at all times. From the Wraith world, elves appear as bright white - because their spirits are pure and good.
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Eledhsúle
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I can remember that Elves (at least more powerful elves) didn't need words to communicate with each other, but used only their minds.

I have to go and see if I can find back story to this...

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Dark Lord Andúril
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Eled, Galadriel did this with all the company remember...
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Aragorn 3rd
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Anduril...galadriel also helps sam and frodo against shelob when they cry for help whilst holding the vial. (as if she communicates and her voice is heard by them). Strength of mind certainly applies to the greatest elf of all 'feanor' who's name means 'spirit of fire' (curufinwe was his real name though)

Also elrond tells isildur to throw the ring in mount doom, but isildur keeps it. Shows elrond has greater strength of mind than isildur who was a powerful man.

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Eledhsúle
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Andúril, I remember, but what I ment by that was a quote, but I hade it no where to be found. Thank you still, Galadriel, Elrond, Celeborn and Gandalf (gröhöm, okay, he was not and elf) all had that power.
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Dark Lord Andúril
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Hey, 3 of those ppl were ringbearers. Do you think that has any relevance?
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Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
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quote:
Strength of mind certainly applies to the greatest elf of all 'feanor' who's name means 'spirit of fire' (curufinwe was his real name though)
Actually, Fëanáro and Curufinwë were both his "real" names. While "Curufinwë" (Skillful Finwë) was the name given to him by his father, and a permanent and primary name, "Fëanáro" was his amilessi tercenyë, or "mother name of insight," and was also his chosen name, and as that, a part of his primary and permanent name.

Andruil - I am sure that the fact that three of the four are ringbearers has a great deal to do with their power. Although it is debatable if it is a consequence of the ring, or the reason they were chosen to guard it.

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To gain that which is worth having, it may be necessary to lose everything else.
~Bernadette Devlin
http://www.shonjir.net

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Viscount Værtalion
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strenght of freewill, remember that Gil-galad knew he was the last supreme elvenking but he still striked and fought against Sauron.
and he also was a ring bearer (he bore the strongest of the three Nenya? before he past it on to Elrond)

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Dark Lord Andúril
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I would guess it to be the latter, though who can tell? We know that Gandalf was chosen to bear a Ring, because he was deemed the "wisest"
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Éoric of the Riddermark
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"No, that was because elves co-exist on both the spiritual and the physical plane at all times. From the Wraith world, elves appear as bright white - because their spirits are pure and good."

This made me wonder: Is it because their spirits are pure and good, or because their spirits are powerful (maybe potent is a better word)? I mean, there are tales of Elves who were neither pure nor good, including many who showed immense pride or greed. Would their spirits shine in the same manner if seen in the Wraith world?

Taking the original statement further, would the spirits of any spirits Men shine in the same manner? I mean, their spirits were also created by Eru, so do their choices in life or inherent nobility (or lack thereof) come into play?

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Dark Lord Andúril
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I believe not, the only reason the elves shined, was because they existed in the spiritual realm at the same time as the mortal, no man could live in the spiritual realm. Except those who were brought there, ie. Frodo as the ringbearer, and as he was stabbed by the Morgul knife.
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Haleth
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Here's a thought:

When Glorfindel appears to the company after Frodo is stabbed, he is described thusly
quote:
To Frodo it appeared that a white light was shining through the form and rainment of the rider, as if through a thin veil.
This is just because Frodo was teetering on the edge of the spirt world and the real world, right? Why else could Glorfindel shine?
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Madomir
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That's exactly right Haleth... i think.. but why is this so? Éoric raises a great question, is it purity or sheer power that causes this? Obviously Glorfindel had both attributes, but what of the sons of Feanor? Would they shine in this way?
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The Last of the Noldor
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No they would not shine only the elves who had seen the light of the two trees would shine.
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Roll of Honor Lassë
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the last of the noldor,
the sons of Fëanor saw the light of the two trees, didn't they?

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Dark Lord Andúril
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They must have done, because before Feanor was banished, he was sentanced in the Ring of Doom which is in sight of the Two Trees.
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Viscount Værtalion
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i agree with haleth i think Glorfindel is one of the best and the oldest. remember it was him that said that no man would kill the chief of the NAZGUL he was there thousands of years ago that puts him high in my rankings.

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Fool, prate not to me about covenants.
There can be no covenants between men and lions,
wolves and lambs can never be of one mind, but
hate each other out and out and through.


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