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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Varda, Lady of the Stars
Author Topic: Varda, Lady of the Stars
Roll of Honor theWhiteLady
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quote:
Then Varda went forth from the council, and she looked out from the height of Taniquetil, and beheld the darkness of Middle-earth beneath the innumerable stars, faint and far. Then she began a great labour, greatest of all the works of the Valar since their coming into Arda...
And it goes on, of course, to say that she created the different stars.

So it says that her stars were the 'greatest of all the works of the Valar.' However, I beg to differ. Wouldn't the greatest work of the Valar be the creation of the Two Trees? They had an enormous impact on the history of M-e and Valinor, while the stars don't really seem quite so important. And also, would it have just been better for the Trees never to have been created? Sure, they were pretty but look at all the pain that came from them. Though they themselves were pure, the jealousy and lust they envoked into the hearts of Morgoth and Fëanor had a devastating impact on all time. Without them, so much evil could have been avoided. Perhaps it was fate, though...

And for a side note: Where did the lesser stars come from? Did Varda create those earlier?

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GreyLady
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But remember the Sun and Moon came from the destruction of the trees, and Men could not awake until the Sun came (I believe). I suppose Eru would have had to create the first stars.

GreyLady

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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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Maybe the task was great as in the biggest thing done by the Valar? However, it was also significant performance, as when Meneltarma(?) was set hung, the elves woke at Cuivienen.

As for the Two Trees, this definitely calls for Imbëar´s wisdom, but I´ll put some cold facts. If the Trees weren´t created, the world would have remained in the darkness of the starlight. Also, the most beautiful things made by the Children of Iluvatar, the Silmarils, would not have been made. Not to mention the sun and the moon were the last fruit and flower of the Trees.

I´d say the lesser stars came from the song of the Ainur. If Middle-earth was sert in our universe, there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy only. No way Varda could have made them all by herself.

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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Kullervo, I think you mean Menelmacar, the Swordsman of the Sky.

Indeed because of the stars, the Elves awoke, and this was a very significant event, so therefore these stars were the greatest work of the Valar. Or maybe 'greatest' means hardest and most extensive?

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Roll of Honor theWhiteLady
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Ah! Yes, I had not thought that the making of the stars would be the hardest, or most strenuous, task. And I do not meant to underestimate their value, but though the stars awoke the Elves, the Trees become their doom and fate.

quote:
Also, the most beautiful things made by the Children of Iluvatar, the Silmarils, would not have been made.
Personally, I don't think that would have been a great loss. What is the saying? 'Beauty is as beauty does.' Through their making and their power, countless thousands were killed. The whole War with Morgoth was caused by them, not the mention the kinslaying...
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Eol the Dark Elf
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But Morgoth's downfall was brought about because of the exile of the Noldor, and more directly by Earendil bearing the last Silmaril to Aman. Thought this opens up quite a few 'what-if's'.

With regard to the lesser stars:
Stars ?

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Lhunithiliel
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I think both creations could be called "the greatest". IMHO, they just can not be compared as their significance was equal.

But:
quote:
Though they themselves were pure, the jealousy and lust they envoked into the hearts of Morgoth and Fëanor had a devastating impact on all time
I deffinitely don't think that the trees had ever had such an impact on Fëanor. I don't think he had ever felt lust and jealousy for this creation of the Vala.

And in this light, if we accept the thought that the trees had this particular efect on the course of the history of ME, then I am afraid we would be more than unjust - we would then seem to have humiliated the very purity of the idea that Tolkien revealed in the trees.

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Roll of Honor theWhiteLady
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Thank you for the link, Eöl!

quote:
I deffinitely don't think that the trees had ever had such an impact on Fëanor
Lhunithiliel is right, and I stand corrected. What I meant to say was that the light of the Trees, caught in the Silmarils, indirectly caused Fëanor's greed. However, I suppose one cannot blame the Silmarils, or the Trees themselves, for the jealousy they invoked though it still seems as though the price the Elves and Valar paid for the glory of the Trees was high []
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Amee The Shadowdancer
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I do believe that the Stars that Varda created were more important than the Trees, Because otherwise the Elves would have awoken into darkness. the light of the Stars were the first light seen by the elves.

The trees were very important, too. For with out them, It would not have shown the beauty of the light and the powers that the valar they themselves possesed. And with out the trees, the Silmarils would not have been created and Morgoth more than likly would not have been defeated. I'm not sure if all I have said is right but it is what I believe.

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Imbëar
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The Eldalië are the people of the stars. If the Silmarillion is Elvish, special mention must be made of the virtue and blessedness of the stars.

All that aside, I believe that the stars symbolize the yet-unborn spirits of the Elves - they who Fall from the stars into the amniotic waters of Cuivienen.

In truth, we humans are all stardust, cosmically defined, and temporarily incarnated.

If life begins as thought amid Eru's stars, then to Eru's stars life returns. The "star theory" necessarily builds upon the concept of divine nature among corporeal beings, the cyclical nature of death-life transformation, and the presence of the "spiritual" or ethereal realm ever present in the world of waking - however far removed, like Valinor itself. In deed, the Heavens have long been the land of the G*ds for us.

Kullervo, thanks for the vote of confidence. However, I'll need to reread everything about the Trees to shape an image of the greater motif. A very expansive project, confounded by the poisoning of Ungoliantë. A lot is said in those two Trees, and even more in their manner of death/sacrifice for the Light of Middle Earth.

Imbëar

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GreyLady
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"No one can stop us now, for we are all made of stars." -Moby. (with a very nice video cameo of Sean Bean)

GL

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Eledhsúle
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There is nothing more beautiful than the star cluster of Pleiades []

I see how Morgoth being very dark and grim creature, might have wanted to take his gaze of the stars...


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Amee The Shadowdancer
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Oooooooooo. Pretty stars........
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Manveri
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[] Really great, Eledhsúle !!!! []
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Snöwdog
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Snöwdog
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Lady Varda by Līga Kļaviņa

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