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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » everyones fav valar? (Page 1)
Author Topic: everyones fav valar?
Aragorn 3rd
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this might be a dumb post, but its just a bit of fun...just seeing what one of the 'tuf guys' is your favourite, you dont have to say why but if you want to thats cool.

Mine is orome...the descriptions of his wrath and being the valar of the hunt...hes cool.

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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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Melkor of course. More is told of him than the other Valar combined. It was great reading all the background info on him from the HoMes.
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Maglor
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Technically Melkor isn't a Valar Kullervo.

I'd say Ulmo because he represents the sea and because unlike Manwe he wasn't so preoccupied with worrying about protecting his own arse. After all Manwe was the one who decicded to fence Valinor away from ME, which was in a way against the wishes of Eru. Ulmo was against this.

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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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Eru created him as a Vala. He is the only one who can take that status away from him. Though the other Valar don´t count him as one doesn´t mean he isn´t, IMO.

[ 08-26-2002, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Kullervo ]

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Maglor
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But he lost his right to change form effictively being stuck in his dark lord form. He also defied Eru and did everything he could against him. The role of the Vala in Arda was to produce the song of Eru not totally destroy it, which is what he wanted to do. Therefore I don't think you can say he one of the Vala from the point these things started to happen.

[ 08-26-2002, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Maglor ]

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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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This might call for some investigation. But until then, I´ll say my favourite Vala was Melkor before he rebelled.
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Maglor
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I'll await your reply, until then let's see if this topic gets back on track. Hopefully it will.
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Shards of Narsil
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Ulmo lord of the waters.
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Glóin the Dark
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I hardly need tell you that my favourite Vala is Aulë.
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Eledhsúle
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Mine is Yavanna, as I am a nature person myself []
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Narwen
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Námo/Mandos... he has so few words, but they are some of the best in "The Silmarillion". And the Doom of the Noldor... scary and unforgettable...
Although I'm also fond of Aulë. Does anyone else think his line, "Nevertheless they will have need of wood." sounds, well, Dwarvish ? I suppose it would actually be the other way around !

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Nârwen of the House of Fëanor

Ind ped an ind
"Say this to Manwe Sulimo,High King of Arda:if Fëanor cannot overthrow Morgoth,at least he delays not to assail him,and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest.Such hurt at the least will I do to the Foe of the Valar that even the Mighty in the Ring of Doom shall wonder to hear it.Yea,in the end they shall follow me.Farewell!"

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GreyLady
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NIENNA! She's misunderstood by Man and not appreciated by Elves, but she helped make Gandalf what he is, and for that a great debt is owed to her.

Good ole Glóin, true to his kind. []

GreyLady

[ 08-26-2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: GreyLady ]

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Sorrow is a woman
http://www.alqualonde.com

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Amee The Shadowdancer
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I like Varda, the Lady Of the Stars. Melkor feared her the most.
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Lhunithiliel
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I'd say - Manwe for he is the Master of the skies and the air!
quote:
lord of the realm of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein. In Arda his delight is in the winds and the clouds, and in all the regions of the air, from the heights to the depths, from the utmost borders of the Veil of Arda to the breezes that blow in the grass. Súlimo he is surnamed, Lord of the Breath of Arda. All swift birds, strong of wing, he loves, and they come and go at his bidding.

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Roll of Honor Ecthelion of the Fountain
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.
quote:
When therefore Earth was yet young and full of flame Melkor coveted it, and he said to the other Valar: 'This shall be my own kingdom; and I name it unto myself!'
i just think hes not counted among the valar anymore because the other valar are pissed, he is many times mentioned among the ainur, and that means basically maiar or valar

been fond or orome myself, he was one of the few that didnt forsake middle earth during the dark ages of melkor, no he didnt hide from me,,, he took vacations there =)

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Orofacion of the Vanyar
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quote:
The role of the Vala in Arda was to produce the song of Eru not totally destroy it, which is what he wanted to do.
Did Morgoth really want to destroy Arda, or merely control it? I believe it was the latter. Ecthelion's quote shows thie quite effectively.

Of the Silmarillion I would have to say that Tulkas is by far my favorite. However I prefer the Tulkas of the Lost Tales rather than the one depicted in the Silmarillion. He is given more character in Lost Tales, and given far more of a temper. I thoroughly enjoyed when he grabbed and bound Melko when Manwe bowed to him.

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Ar-Pharazon
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Aulë, without a doubt.
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Elenya
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I like Ulmo and Nienna. Ulmo 'cause I love the sea and anything to do with water. And Nienna because she does not grieve for herslef and she shows others how to turn thier own sorrows to understanding, hope, and strength of spirit.
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Imbëar
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In the beginning of Time, I was conceived under the adolescent flame of Aries, god of War. Yet the sacred murder that primed my blood pumping did deliver my body and breath to this world under the sign of the Sea-goat.
In the first house, I am a student and disciple of the wounded Smith-god. Therefore, my fealty lies with Aulë.
May Eru bless my work and ammend it.

But I am, too, a creature of horns, and in need of water - to balance the active flame. Therefore, I am also desperately bound to Oromë, the Forest-god, for my birth, death, and revival.
And to Ulmo, the infinite calm and the endless storm, the womb of the world and the deluge. The only draught to slake my thirst, and the whale-bellied depths wherein forced I find Baptism.

But never will I discount Melko, He who Arises in Might. For he Fell, and we Rise, and his fire is the spirit that inhabits our eyes. In conquering Melko, our lives find Purpose - and in adherence, we find i-Eru.

Imbëar

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Imbëar

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Lhunithiliel
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quote:
Did Morgoth really want to destroy Arda, or merely control it? I believe it was the latter.
In the light of your thoughts, I'd invite you to the thread "WHAT IF...?" in the LOTR forum!
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Imbëar
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I know it wasn't addressed to me, but...
Sauron desired control, stagnation.

Melko desired chaos and rapid change, mutation, decay, death - the only thing he could "make." What the Valar built, he broke.
In regard to Arda, "if I can't have it, no one can."

Imbëar

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Maglor
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Yes Oro, Imbear is right. From the moment Manwe and the other Valar refused to have Melkor as their master Melkor decided to destroy Arda as we know it. All this theroy is well explained in HOME 10 (which I've lent to a friend).

Pretty much Tolkien goes on to say that even if Melkor had won the war against the Valar he would have destroyed Arda because he had lost all sense of anything creative in himself. Tolkien sums it up beautifully in HOME 10 when he says something to the effect (I'm paraphrazing here)

"Sauron could have let the Numenoreans live as long as they were under his cnotrol, Melkor on the other hand would have destroyed all, even if they were under his control"

Melkor had grown to the point where he anything that lived was going against him, even the orcs he had created would have been destroyed in the end after he had no use for them. He also towards the end was by passing the small things on Arda, for example he would not notice flowers on a hill, this kind of ignorence of the small things was because of his continued closed off mind to anything but himself and destroying Arda. Anyway he this stuff is all in HOME 10, I recommend it.

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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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I´ll put a few selected quotes from the HoMe X; it´s too long for all of it to be copied.

Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only
spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the
creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to
dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-
Morgoth. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he
probably knew more of the 'Music' than did Melkor


Thus, as 'Morgoth', when Melkor was confronted by the
existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and
intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence,
and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force,
or the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction.


If such things [as flowers - K. ] were forced upon his attention,
he was angry and hated them, as coming from other minds than his
own.)


Morgoth would no doubt,
if he had been victorious, have ultimately destroyed even his
own 'creatures', such as the Orcs, when they had served his sole
purpose in using them: the destruction of Elves and Men.
Melkor's final impotence and despair lay in this: that whereas
the Valar (and in their degree Elves and Men) could still love
'Arda Marred', that is Arda with a Melkor-ingredient, and
could still heal this or that hurt, or produce from its very
marring, from its state as it was, things beautiful and lovely,
Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his
own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of
others: even left alone he could only have gone raging on till all
was levelled again into a formless chaos. And yet even so he
would have been defeated, because it would still have 'existed',
independent of his own mind, and a world in potential.


Sauron had never reached this stage of nihilistic madness. He
did not object to the existence of the world, so long as he could
do what he liked with it. He still had the relics of positive
purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which
he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause
of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and co-
ordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction. (It
was the apparent will and power of Melkor to effect his designs
quickly and masterfully that had first attracted Sauron to him.)

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Maglor
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Thanks for the quote's Kullervo. That summs up what I as trying to say.
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Orofacion of the Vanyar
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Good points everyone, it appears Morgoth did desire to destroy and not merely control.

But what of Melkor in his beginnings? My thoughts will continue in the "What if..." thread.

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