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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Eönwë Isn´t Very Bright
Author Topic: Eönwë Isn´t Very Bright
Roll of Honor Kosomot
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quote:
When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eönwë the herald of Manwë, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eönwë to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwë. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eönwë departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth had laid upon him were very strong.
Like, couldn´t he have done what the Valar did with Melkor? Put him in chains and drag to Valinor? If Eönwë saw bin Laden he´d propably just tell him to be a nice boy and report to the US forces.

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From: The Hells of Iron | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eol the Dark Elf
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Hmmm; could he have? Put Sauron in chains I mean, it took much of the Valar to do so for Melkor,nd considering both Sauron and Eonwe were 'lesser' than those involved in the other incident, it mightbe a stretch to say that Eonwe could have bound Sauron.

Furthermore, Sauron in not submitting id something arguably stupid, but certainly unexpected (it seems - The Valar never seem very good with this sort o' thing [] ). Rather than face humilation he does something very similar to Morgoth: takes a path which ultimately lead to Melkor's compelte banishment. So even if Eonwe could have bound Sauron, I don't think he would have since he wouldn't have though Sauron would have gone anywhere.

.....

On an aside though: the distinction here, between the Valar and Maiar, seems to be made by the Ainur themselves, not just the Children of Eru. I.e. that judgement could not be passed from the Maiar to the even themselves, let alone the Valar.

From: Nan Elmoth | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orofacion of the Vanyar
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quote:
But it was not within the power of Eönwë to pardon those of his own order...
Maybe this also includes binding them in chains and dragging them back to Aman.

Gandalf could send Saruman back, maybe it is past their power like Eol hinted on.

Sauron also put on "the good face" and since the Ainur could not understand evil since it was past their comprehension, Eonwe probably thought he had changed and would not need to force him to come back but would expect him to.

I know what you mean though Kullervo, Eonwe seems a little thick. Afterall, the Silmarils were stollen from his camp, you would think he would have a heavy guard on something that caused so much trouble.

[ 04-16-2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Orofacion of the Vanyar ]

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Thingol of Doriath
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I wouldn't say that Eonwë was "thick", as Orofacion stated, Sauron put on a fair guise and repented his "sins"... Eonwë believed him. The text states that Sauron most likely did repent. Eonwë might have been naive, but certainly not thick.

As for the Silmarils being stolen from his camp, Eonwë did have a guard on them... most likely Elves from Aman. When Maedhros and Maglor killed the immediate guards in an act of desperation, the whole camp awoke and stood against the brothers. So in truth, the Silmarils were guarded by the Army of the Valar. At that point they could have slain the brothers and retrieved the Silmarils, but
quote:
Eonwë would not permit the slaying of the sons of Fëanor.
I don't think that this shows the "thickness" of Eonwë either... more his nobility. He makes the choice that the Silmarils are not worth the blood of another. He is the first to make that distinction... countless lives were snuffed out for the Silmarils. Eonwë stands above the rest.

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From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Madomir
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i've never been overly impressed with Eönwë's actions, there's plenty of examples in real life of guilty folks who say they are sorry only to commit the same crime again in the future. To think that it's OK to allow Sauron to wander free just because he said he's sorry, even if he meant it at the time, was a bit naive on Eönwë's part in my opinion. I understand he couldn't be judge and jury over another Maia but how 'bout a citizen's arrest? That doesn't seem unreasonable, at least Sauron could've been judged by the Valar that way as he deserved.

I guess allowing Feanor's boys to get away could be a noble act, he showed pity for them which is fine. But just the same, if i were Eönwë i don't think i'd put that incident on my resume if i were applying for a position as a security guard. Some good came of it though, without Eönwë's pity Maglor never could've grown up to become Tom Bombadil.

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Thingol of Doriath
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But then again... Eonwë was acting on Manwë's behalf, as his herald. I believe his actions to be both noble and loyal.

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From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
GLAMDRING The Foe Hammer
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Neither Eonwe nor Manwe show much wisdom or insight throughout. Both seem to be incredibly naive and dense while Mandos and Ulmo show both wisdom and good judgement in almost every case but are ignored for the most part by Manwe.

In my opinion Manwe was a poor choice for supreme ruler of the world. If he doesn't have the sense to understand evil then he is the wrong person for the job.

Why Eonwe lets Maedhros and Maglor go after they kill the guards and take the silmarils is beyond me. Also, as Manwe's herald he should have taken Sauron into custody and brought him to the Valar for judgement, not let him go with instructions to present himself to them. How stupid is this guy anyway?

I don't consider his actions either noble or loyal but a serious dereliction of duty that had dire consequenses for everyone in ME, except of course for Eonwe who simply went back to Valinor and wondered when Sauron would show up as promised.

Just like Manwe, the wrong person for the job. Orome should have been the one to represent the Valar just as he was when he came to Cuivienen.

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Turgon of Gondolin
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Glamdring, well said. The reason manwe was the king of the valar is because he was the most powerful (except melkor of course), it makes sense to have the most powerful as the leader. Except i agree that his decisions were a bit dumb, he should have taken ulmo's words more seriously. Eonwe takes after his master, very naive, extremely powerful (could have beaten sauron) but lets him go telling him to go back to aman. Sauron shouldve been kept in the halls of mandos so should the balrogs.

I dont think eonwe was that dumb, just naive, sauron was genuinely crapping himself at the war of wrath and was probably repenting for a while. But what eonwe didnt realise is that the power that corrupted sauron was greater than his masters own power, the lies of melkor were woven into sauron and could never be undone (unless by eru).

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ConfusionStar
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quote:
Some good came of it though, without Eönwë's pity Maglor never could've grown up to become Tom Bombadil.
Huh?
From: Appaloosa Land - Battlefield World | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Madomir
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[]
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Thingol of Doriath
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I thought we decided that Tom Bombadil was really Lenwë. []

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From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ConfusionStar
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Can you give me a link to that?
From: Appaloosa Land - Battlefield World | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thingol of Doriath
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Sure, here you go!

[]

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From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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