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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Galadriel a Noldo?
Author Topic: Galadriel a Noldo?
Roll of Honor Herendil
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quote:
Finrod was with Turgon, his friend; but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes, was eager to be gone.
quote:
A queen she was of the woodland Elves, the wife of Celeborn of Doriath, yet she herself was of the Noldor and remembered the Day before days in Valinor, and she was the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth.
Galadriel was 50% Teler, 25% Vanya and 25% Noldo, so why is she counted as a Noldo? Was it because she lived with them in her youth in Valinor? Or can she be counted as all three? Maybe she was counted as a Teler when she lived in Doriath:
quote:
Now on a time Finrod and Galadriel his sister were the guests of Thingol their kinsman in Doriath.
But that quote only says that Thingol was her kinsman which he of course was.

[ 03-05-2002, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: Isildur of the Númenóreans ]

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Maglor
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Pretty much because her father was a Prince of the Noldor her status was dirict from him not her mother. Technically she was a princess of the Noldor. Also because she gave up any right she had with the Teleri of Valinor when she deserted them to go with the Noldor to ME.
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Turambar
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Does your lineage changes when you don't follow the orders of the Valar?
I think not.
Yes, she was counted a Noldo.
No, she wasn't entirely of Noldor blood.
Yes, she did leave and so, became the Queen of the Noldor AFTER she married.

Turambar
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Dingalen
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So, you belong to the people of whose blood you were born, not to those you chose to belong to? What would that make the american people? English, German, Irish, Spanish, Nigerian, Liberian, ..., because that were they come from!
I believe she is counted as one of the Noldo, because she chose to share their fate.

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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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That is not correct. The Noldor are not accounted for sharing in the oath of Feanor. If that were the case then Finarfin or the other Noldor who stayed back in Aman would not be counted such.

Almost all of the races of the various peoples in Tolkien are Patriarchal cultures and so the children do take their lineage from their father. Galadriel was daughter of Finarfin, son of Finwe. And so she was a Noldor.

The only example of a Matriarchal culture as far as my memory goes is the people to which Gollum belonged to. If you remember, his grandmother was the head of the family.

In Numenor, until a much later stage, the daughter was not made queen even if she was the first born.

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TulKas
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The Elves aren't divided racially like we are... They're all just Elves. They were divided into Teleri, Vanyar, and Noldor based on WHEN they left to Valinor... Or if they didn't at all
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Maglor
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Your all missing a part of the book.

Galadriel was consided a Noldor before the events of the Noldor leaving Valinor. This leaves the only solution to be that she was a Noldor because of her father and grandfather. She also was living with the Noldor and not the Teleri or the Vanya. Who she married does not mean anything.

She was always referred to as a Noldor proberly because she wanted to be a Noldor. She had plenty of chances to be part of the Teleri group but obviously didn't want to.

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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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Maglor: read my post? I always agreed with you []
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Maglor
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Yeah you did, but you didn't bring up all my points. I wanted to extend it out a bit. Anyway sorry i should have mentioned that your and my views were similar.

[ 03-06-2002, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Maglor ]

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Roll of Honor Herendil
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TulKas, most of the Noldor, at least later on, had dark hair while the Vanyar had light, so there was a distinction in their physical appearance.
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TulKas
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More of a genetic thing, don't you think? The ancestors of the modern Vanya were mostly blonde, so it carried down... If you can find a passage from the book that says the Noldor were separated from the Vanyar because of their hair color, I'll believe you
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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Well ok, I suppose you're right, at first I didn't quite understand what you meant [] But I think that even at the awakening pretty much all who later became Vanyar had light hair and all who later became Noldor had dark hair, which is kinda weird if it's a coincidence.

[ 03-06-2002, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Isildur of the Númenóreans ]

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TulKas
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Eh... Well, I don't have The Silmarillion with me at the moment, and I don't remember exactly how they were divided, so I'll just keep it short... The Noldor were the first to leave from Middle-Earth to go to Valinor. The Teleri came later, and some of them stayed in Middle-Earth, including those at the Havens and Menegroth... Don't remember much about the Vanyar
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Dark Link
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I just checked it out Tulkas, and the Vanyar were the first to arive in Valinor, followed by the Noldor, who were in turn followed by the Teleri.
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Roll of Honor Herendil
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yes TulKas, I know that, but because the elves were divided based on their longing for the West, the hair colour of each Vanya should be pretty much random, but it isn't; almost all elves that longed most for the West (those that were named Vanyar) had light hair.
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TulKas
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So the first Elves to see the light of Aman had light-colored hair... Who knows why Tolkien made it so? They were divided chronologically, not racially
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ElessarsFan
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The whole situation of was she a noldor or another race of Elf has to do with her heritage and upbringing. Was she raised among the boats or was she raised among the smithies and forges of her father. Did she follow after her mother or her father. Its not a simple answer to a simple question. We are products of our upbringing and our environment. There are marked differences from someone raised in New York as to someone raised in Texas. The whole answer is she was her fathers daughter, so thus she was Noldor. Plus Tolkien had a very victorian view to family relationships. Few people do know that the grandson of queen victoria of england waged war against her, and his upbringing, including summers spent in england, led to his love of warships. Her grandson was the Kaiser of Germany, and his love of ships was shown during WWI in his building of a large navy.
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Maglor
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Tulkas the difference beteween the different races of elves was identified through heritage. If your father and mother were Vanya then you were a Vanya. Just like the hobbits were divided into three groups the elves who left Curuvinien were too.

Now what happens when two races intermix together you have to decide through choice which race you want to be. Obviously Galadriel lived with the Noldor and left Valainor with the Noldor so logically you would assume her to be a Noldor. If she wanted to be part of the Teleri she had many chances to be, still she didn't choose to be a Teleri. She was a Noldor through and through.

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Snöwdog
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Being 25% Noldorian heritage, she was counted as Noldorian because she chose that path.
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