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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Greatest of the Noldor King (Page 3)
Author Topic: Greatest of the Noldor King
faithlorien
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I think the biggest noldor king is Fingolfin.. Who can ignore The effect of his army in the war... He is really brave because he is the greatest son of Finwë...
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Ereinion
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The greatest son of Finwe was Fëanor.
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Eol the Dark Elf
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A compromise for the Feanor 'debate': All those who would say he was the greatest of the High Kings should also choose another, assuming Feanor wasn't High King?
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Ecthelion of the Fountain
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Greatest can mean different things. Besides, J.R.R. Tolkien has provided enough information to have your own opinions on characters, without automatically following his. 'Greatest' is more of an opinion thing.
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Gil-galad999
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Exactly! so Gil-galad has my vote! so HA!

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Aurë entuluva!


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Gothmog35
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I believe as far as greatest king, Turgon was greatest. A king looks after his people.If not for the curse and the treason of Maeglin Gondolin would have stood strong for many years to come.As far as most valiant, No other, even of the Valar, did more physical hurt to Morgoth than Fingolfin.He was one bad*** elf and a great king as well.
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Artaresto
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Personally I prefer Orodreth, King of Nargothrond. He was wise, but, alas, his people where easily diverted to other leaders (Celegorm/Curufin and Túrin). Sending Gil-Galad to the Havens (revised Silmarillion, Orodreth being Gil-Galads father), was extremely foresighted, methinks. Gil-Galads role against Sauron in the second age was anything but insignificant. Go Orodreth!
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Inderjit Sanghera
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I think that Tolkien mentions on several occasions how Feanor was the greatest of all the Noldor, and of the Elves, with the exception of Luthien-and by greatest he means greatest in potential and power-he certainly wasn't the wisest, or the best ruler in the world. I think Aule claims Feanor was the greatest in potential of all the Children of Eru and Tolkien also states that Feanor had power "beyond the power of the Eldar" when describing Miriel's reasons for dying.
I am not sure whether this thread is specifically about High Kings only, if so only Finwe, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Fingon, Turgon and Gil-Galad qualify-Feanor was never high king of the Noldor because Fingolfin never specifically renounced his kingship. In terms of High Kings Fingolfin was probably the greatest in terms of power, followed by Fingon, Turgon and then Gil-Galad. In terms of prudence, maybe Gil-Galad edges it, Fingon was far too impetuous, as was Fingolfin to an extent, and Turgon really ruined his reputation by going down with his tower, literally speaking, plus all three were very proud. Gil-Galad,on the other hand, whilst not as powerful or talented as the other High-Kings was the more prudent in terms of policy, though there are a lot of differences between fighting Morgoth in Angband and Sauron in Mordor. He also inherited the relative calmness of the House of Finarfin, in comparison to the sheer arse-kicking impetousness of the houses of Feanor and Fingolfin. Ah..I forgot about Finarfin, though that is easy to do, he seems very level-headed I guess, though I am unsure as to whether such a ruler would be a good king over ALL the Noldor.

If you were to extend the rules to merely include Noldorin KINGS then Feanor, Maedhros, Finrod and Orodreth would be included too. Feanor was, as I have already mentioned, the greatest in terms of power, Maedhros and Finrod were problably equal in terms of power, though they were powerful in different ways, and Finrod was a lot wiser. Orodreth...bleh...together with Finarfin he is my least favourite of all the Noldor...he would have had to fight one day anyway, and as for taking orders from Thingol and being bossed around by Turin...do you really see Feanor, Fingolfin, Finwe, Fingon etc. having that happen to them? I think, however, that Fingolfin would still get my vote as the greatest king of the Noldor, due to Feanor's actions. Fingon would come a close second.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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I'd be a little careful when using Tolkien's examples of greatness. I'm not sure that Tolkien was that impressed by people who were great purely through power and influence. A lot of those, in particular the Elves in the Silmarillion, had a tendency to suffer from pride which was very often their achilles heel. Tolkien seemed to prefer little people like Hobbits or wandering outlaws. Yes, in terms of shall we say, natural ability, Feanor was probably the greatest of the Elves. Yet, in my opinion, he abused his power dreadfully. I suppose he could be the Noldor equivalent of a talented sportstar such as George Best in football for example who has all the talent but loses it or abuses it. In terms of pure fighting ability, the two greatest warriors of men were Turin and Hurin, but look what happened to them!

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Actually, I am now feeling a lot better about things, in general.

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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A great leader leads by example. Thus, my choice is Fingon. He has, IMO, the best mix of important qualities.

By the way, was Fëanor ever referred to as a king? He may have been king by right when his father was killed but the greater portion of the Noldor rejected him, preferring to follow Fingolfin.

[ 04-23-2007, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: The Dread Pirate Roberts ]

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Inderjit Sanghera
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I would have though that the Elves who followed him called him king...plus Maedhros CEDED the kingship to Fingolfin.
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Prince Imrahil
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quote:
By the way, was Fëanor ever referred to as a king
There some some, mainly of Fingolfin's host, who refused to be led by Fëanor.

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And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses...tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

-Minas Tirith

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Hamfast Gamgee
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He seemed to be the Noldor with the greatest influence, King or no, after the destruction of the two trees.

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Actually, I am now feeling a lot better about things, in general.

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I'm not sure about him having the greatest influence, Hamfast. Had Fingolfin and Finarfin refused the flight of the Noldor, would the majority of Noldor have followed Fëanor? Yes, he kindled their hearts to want to go to Middle Earth, but at the same time most refused to follow him.

I'm not trying to diminish him. I'm just not sure how many actually personally followed him outside the Noldor of Formenos.

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Prince Imrahil
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quote:
And indeed when Fëanor began the marshalling of the Noldor for their setting-out, then at once dissension arose. For though he had brought the assembly in a mind to depart, by no means all were of a mind to take Fëanor as King. Greater love was given to Fingolfin and his sons, and his household and the most part of the dwellers in Tirion refused to renounce him, if he would go with them...Fëanor and his following were in the van, but the greater host came behind under Fingolfin...
-Of the Flight of the Noldor



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And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses...tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

-Minas Tirith

From: Dor-En-Ernil, Belfalas (by way of VA) | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noldor
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Imagine a simple picture:
Valinor. You are among noldor looking at the figure in the middle of the centre. You listen to his words. And you ARE agree with him!
"The Trees are killed! And our beloved king too! Valars with all their power did nothing to protect us! Morgoth has stolen our beauty, out light...and my father... Will you follow me?!!!"
Of cource you will. Just because you can't resist his power.
And now little question. How do you think, did Feanaro asked the crow if they like him to be their king? For sure. And what did they say? Clearly, yes.
Tolkien didn't mention it. But if you think a little bit, you'll understand it's obvios.
So, I guess, Feanor was the one.

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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But the picture isn't so simple, oh Noldo. See Prince Imrahil's quote above.

Earlier in that chapter it states that Fëanor took the title of king unto himself, so we have to grant that he was "a" king of sorts. Some followed him. I'm just not convinced that he could be considered king of the Noldor. Those who had lived under Fingolfin's kingship refused to renounce him in favor of Fëanor, and these were the vast majority of the host on The Flight.

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Noldor
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That's right. But they separated AFTER Feanor's speach. It happened when they were already marching and Fingolfing was agitating his people not to listen to Feanaro.
But in the very time after the disaster I guess they all recognized him as a king. And if after that they changed theit mind to Fingolfing - well, "Who cares?" - said Feanor and burned his ships.
P.S. When Fingolfing came to Middle-Earth and Fingon saved Maedros, Maedros GIVE THE CROWN to Fingon's father. That means something, doesn't it?

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Prince Imrahil
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quote:
oh Noldo
[]

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And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses...tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

-Minas Tirith

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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quote:
That's right. But they separated AFTER Feanor's speach. It happened when they were already marching and Fingolfing was agitating his people not to listen to Feanaro.
But in the very time after the disaster I guess they all recognized him as a king. And if after that they changed theit mind to Fingolfing - well, "Who cares?" - said Feanor and burned his ships.
P.S. When Fingolfing came to Middle-Earth and Fingon saved Maedros, Maedros GIVE THE CROWN to Fingon's father. That means something, doesn't it?

That's not how it happened.

Fingolfin ruled the Noldor of Tirion from the time of Fëanor's banishment, Finwë's abdication, and their move to Formenos. Fingolfin was already king of the Noldor and had been for many years when Fëanor convinced them to move to Middle Earth.

As for Maedhros, here is what he said to Fingolfin:

quote:
he waived his claim to kingship over all the Noldor, saying to Fingolfin: 'If there lay no grievance between us, lord, still the kingship would rightly come to you, the eldest here of the house of Finwë, and not the least wise.'
He refused to claim kingship as his father had, for the reason he stated to Fingolfin: the kingship would rightly come to Fingolfin even if there were no grievance between the two houses. Fingolfin was king of the Noldor by right.
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Matoro
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No love for poor Fingon?

Fingon was a badass. Because of he saved Maedhros, the High Kingship of Noldor passed to the House of Fingolfin instead of the eldest house, the House of Fëanor. And if the High King of Noldor had ran blindly after a Silmaril, killing Sindar and Noldor refugees in the process, whole kingship would have probably lost its prestige amnog other elves.

After Fingon became High King, he had to deal with consequences of Dagor Bragolloch (or whatever, I'm not good in Sindar, it's the Battle of Sudden Fire I'm talking about). Maedhros' land was overrun, and so was Finrod's and Beörian lands. He organized counterattacks and practically saved Noldor.

And Nirnaeth Arnoediad might have been a succes, if not that Nargothrondian dude messing with Fingon's plan. Even though Maedhros' host was practically doomed, The Silmarillion still told that combined strenght of Fingon and Turgon might have been enough to win the battle, especially after the dwarves made Glaurung retreat.

Then Gothmog killed him. Poor, poor Fingon.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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We don't really know that much about Fingon when he was High-King of the Noldor. He died pretty soon after his father. And quite painfully as well. Perhaps his greater deeds were done before he was King?
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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