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Minas Tirith Forums » Silmarillion » Greatest of the Noldor King (Page 2)
Author Topic: Greatest of the Noldor King
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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quote:
Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe, though she was wiser than he, and her wisdom increased with the long years.(UTpart 2Amroth king of lorien)

quote:
Feanor Eldest son of Finwe (the only child of Finwe and Mriel], half-brother of Fingolfin and Finarfin greatest of the Noldor, and leader in their rebellion deviser of the Feanorian script maker of the Silmarils slain in Mithrim in the DagornuinGiliath(silm glossary of names)

This message has been edited by Fingolfin of the Noldor on 08-03-2001 at


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Turin Turambar
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The first qoute is from UT so im not sure we can consider that
and the second it says the feanor is the greatest noldor, BUT THAT DOESNT CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE WAS NEVER KING!!!!

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Eol the Dark Elf
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It's not fair to say that a lack of evidence disproves the existence of something.
From: Nan Elmoth | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mellon
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, JRR said in print when someone was a King. Therefor the lack of evidence can indeed disprove the existence of this particular something.

Don't get me wrong, Feanor had that love/hate thing going in a way no other Noldor did. And his greatness was in his abilities and knowledge, not his leadership qualities.

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the takers get the honey
givers sing the blues


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Galdor of the Tree
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Not more of this Finarfin stuff. I say Orodreth. He lead Nargothrond to become a safe and peacful place until a ceratain someone screwed him over.
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Celedaen
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Orodreth? If we're picking from the House of Finarfin, my vote goes to Finrod!
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Galdor of the Tree
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I would say Finrod on most days too. Just got to thinking about his ummm peacefulness. Only drawback was his lack of ability to stand up to others(namly Celegorm, Curufin, and Turin).
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Gil-galad999
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i would have to say Gil-galad -- as we all know, the Noldor's power waned over the ages. Yes Fingolfin and Feanor were great... but look at the times they lived.. they were full of greatness, great men/elves and even greater deeds. Gil-galad (Ereinion) was raised in the last days of this greatness and watched as the power of the elves faded slowly into the west. As the Last High King of a dwindling race it could not have been easy. Especially knowing Sauron for who he was when he approached Celebrimbor. Ereinion had to watch as the greater half of the Noldor was overrun by Sauron's armies and all of Eregion was taken over. We all know that without the Numenoreans help that even Lindon would have been overrun in the end. The fact that Ereinion bounced back from almost certain peril and (with help of course) turned the tables and actually fought Sauron (i believe that Gil-galad could have really hurt Sauron had not Elendil's corpse been in the way). Ereinion became a great king from nothing while the other Noldorean kings started with their greatness and, being doomed, had it taken away. anyways... thats just my thoughts on the subject : )
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Dominus
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You guys are dealing with this as an either Gil Galad or Fingolfin. Both great kings of the Noldor. But despite his failings, Feanor was clearly the greatest (not best!) of the Noldor Kings. His name meant Spirit of Fire. Dying after childbirth, his mother apologized to Finwe for what her son would do and be capable of. Feanor forged the Silmarils. He totally punked out Morgoth, inspired the Noldor to war. And though he died at the beginning of that war, reread how he died. He was killing Balrogs right and left and wound up too deep in their ranks, cut off and surrounded. And Balrogs, as you all know, are Maiar, the same thing that Gandalf and Sauron are. Feanor was nothing short of godlike, despite his many failings.

And sorry guys, but the Noldor followed Feanor because he was his father's legitimate heir, and therefore King of the Noldor after Finwe's base slaying by Melkor.

In Fellowship,
Sean Richey

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Dagorhir Battle Games

This message has been edited by Dominus on 08-07-2001 at


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Galdor of the Tree
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Gil-Galad had it easy. The Noldo of old had it tough. Fighting against Morgoth with the other Valar trying to kill them all off(cept Ulmo) was more than anything Gil-galad faced in his time as king. Ooooh Sauron. Big deal. Defeating him is no big deal. He just lost to much to count for anything.(I mean even a dog whooped him)
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Gil-galad999
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ok on Gil-galad having it easy ... no he didnt have it easy. if you look at the MANY heroes of the 1rst age and most Elven Houses had Edain and many many great warriors with them they had plenty of help while Gil-galad only had Elendil (with a few unamed heroes) and later the Numenoreans. Sauron may be nothing compared to Morgoth but for the amount of evil to good, Gil-galad was very hard pressed to accomplish what he did. Plus Huan's battle with Sauron was during the 1rst age Gil-galad, for his time, did more than you could expect of ANY High King. Feanor was great, but in no way could i say he was a great KING for the many things he did. IE: the Kinslaying and The Oath. Kings require foresight for which Feanor was seriously lacking. (what would Finwe would have done had he survived the stealing of the Silmarils?) Feanor was a great ELF but not a great King.

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Aurë entuluva!


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Mellon
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with the other Valar trying to kill them all off
I don't remember that.

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the takers get the honey
givers sing the blues


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Celedaen
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Nor I.
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Lord of the Nazgul
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FEANOR RULES!!!!

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You dare stand in front of the Lord of the Nazgul!


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I would say Fingolfin, But i would have Kicked his

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"The doom lies in yourself, not in your name"


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Galdor of the Tree
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Curse of Mandos.
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Nienna the Weeper
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Do you mean High King or just King? I know Finrod was the King of Nargothrond but he was never High King. If it's just King, then my vote goes to Finrod, too.

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For we are but Atani and death is our Fate. Such is the gift of Iluvatar.


From: Why are you looking down here? | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Turin Turambar
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FEANOR WAS NOT KING!!!!!
ok,start another thread and ask who was the greatest elf(or person) to live then feanor would be one of my choices

And they didnt follow feanor cuz he was king, they followed him to get at Morgoth

And he didnt cut a bloody path through balrogs cuz only 7 existed!!

And dont u usally have to be proclaimed king?? he never was, therefor finarfin could have been king!!

So Feanor CAN NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR GREATEST KING BECAUSE HE NEVER WAS KING!!


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Maglor
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As Turin Turambar said Feanor was not king. He should have been when Finwe died but because off his previous actions the majority of the Noldor did not accept him. The Noldor did not have a proper king when they left Valinor only when Feanor died did Fingolfin become the acknowleged High king by all Noldor. This was because Maedhros did not accept the kingship which it turns out he did not deserve because his father was not King.
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Sauron's Nagging Wife
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I thought Fëanor was a selfish, proud idiot.

Fingolfin was certainly the bravest.

Finrod Felagund was definitely the best of all the Noldor (as a person, I mean).

There isn't as much about Gilglad as there are about the guys in the First Age, but I always get the impression of him being a great warrior during a very difficult time.

It's difficult to compare them, but I'll go with Gil-galad as best king but Finrod as my personal favorite.

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"Will you stop planning the downfall of the West and come and eat your dinner before it gets cold?" -- Legrace, the Lady of the Dark Tower


From: The Great Tower, Mordor | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ereinion
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Maglor said:
''Maedhros did not accept the kingship which it turns out he did not deserve because his father was not King.''

I don't see it that way. I think Maedhros didn't accept kingship because he wanted to assuage hatred between houses of Feanor and Fingolfin.
Also in Silmarillion, Of the return of the Noldor there is said:
''..even as Mandos foretold the House of Feanor were called the Dispossessed, because the overlordship passed from it,..''
If Feanor wasn't king Maedhros couldn't have claimed the Kingship. Yet he could.

You also said:
''..Feanor was not king. He should have been when Finwe died but because off his previous actions the majority of the Noldor did not accept him..''
I don't think the host of Feanor accepted Fingolfin as their king either.
So is there possibility that Noldor, when departing from Valinor, had two kings?


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Maglor
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OK time to answer questions.
I never said Maedhros didn't accept it because he's father wasn't king. I'm just saying that he didn't deserve it because Feanor wasn't king.
Maedhros colud have claimed because of the unclear situation but Fingolfin was the rightful king.
Mandos's quote could be one of those things where Feanor's house believed they were dispossessed but they really weren't.
If you read what i said the Noldor did not have a King when they left Valinor because they were split in two groups. Fingolfin assumed that role afterwards.

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Ereinion
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Yea Maglor I think I'll must agree with you. I thought that Fingolfin became King already in Tirion when Finwe went with Feanor to Formenos. I read it again and because there is nowhere clearly stated that he was a king (it is only said that he ruled Noldor in Tirion) I'll accept that Feanor was also just a leader. Still I'm not completely sure in it

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HT
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Fingolfin. He saw the Trees and the Valar with his own eyes, and helped lead his remnant of the Noldor through the Grinding Ice, a feat that astonished even Feanor. Alas, the elves diminished during their stay in Middle-Earth, even as the Enemy did. What is it about the Mortal Realm that takes it out of people, anyway? Even today it seems like most people can't stand more than about a century of it.

Turin, stop shouting. What do you mean, there were only seven Balrogs? Is that what you meant? I don't remember an exact number ever being given.

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Vala he is, thou saist? Get thee gone, thou gore-crow of Mandos! Etc.


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Ecthelion of the Fountain
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Whether there were 7, or hundreds of Balrogs is a debatable matter. If you are talking about fighting ability, it's Fingolfin definitely. If you are talking about leadership etc., I think it's a toss-up between Fingolfin and Turgon. (Was Turgon even king?)
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