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Author Topic: Dragons
Glaurung
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Dragons have always been a mystery... who made them? Where did they all come from? Here is a good place to discuss dragons and their origins.
From: Angband | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Earendilyon
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Do you want to discuss the dragons in Tolkien's books, or dragons in general?

If the first, then read the Silm.
If the second, then ask someone else


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Tuor
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Earendilyon,

He or she has at least heard of one dragon from the Silmarillion.

Glaurung,

There is a thread already about dragons you will have to reset the setting to show all threads. I believe it is on the second page, but it could be on the third. But if you have more questions then by all means post them. There are many here who's pool of Tolkien knowledge runs very deep. OK there are at least a few, I'm not counting myself among them by any means.

This message has been edited by Tuor on 07-20-2001 at


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Earendilyon
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Nor do we, Tuor!

The thread you mentioned is one of my own, I had completely forgot it! Shame on me!!!

This is the thread you're looking for, Glaurung!

This message has been edited by Earendilyon on 07-20-2001 at


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Galdor of the Tree
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Dragons? Evil little buggers aren't they. Good thing I saved you, Earendilyon, from that one by impaling it with my spear eh?
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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An early theory of mine:

REPOST:

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The Book of Lost Tales 2 pg86 Ballantine ed.:

quote:

Now those drakes anf worms are the evillest creature that Melko has made, and the most uncouth, yet of all are they the most powerful, save it be the Balrogs only. A great cunning and wisdom have they... ...for it[the blood of dragons] is as poison of fires that slays all save the most godlike in strength. How so that may be, even as their lord these foul beasts love lies and lust after gold and precious things with a great fierceness of desire, albeit thay may not use nor enjoy them...

pg 97:

quote:

are cold as is tha nature of snakes and serpents, and of them a many having wings with the utmost noise and speed; but the mightier are hot and very heavy and slow-going, and some belch flame, and fire flickereth beneath their scales, and the lust and greed and cunning evil of these is the greatest of all creatures: such was the Foaloke whose burning there set all the places of hie habitation in waste and desolation...

pg 145

quote:

among Melko's many dragons some were smaller, cold like snake, and of these many were flying creatures; while others, the mightier, were hot and heavy, fire-dragons...

The Lost Road and other Writings pg 26 Ballantine ed:

quote:

...by many evil things that Morgoth had made in the days of his dominion: demons and dragons and monsters, and Orcs, that are mockaries of the creatures of Iluvatar...

As you can see Dragons are very often compared to snakes and serpents and according to the last quote they, among others, were mockeries of the creatures of Ilvatar.
This being true I believe dragons were snakes altered and twisted by morgoth for his own designs which is supported by the fact the first dragons were most like snakes in that htey did not have wings but as Morgoth continued to adjust the design they continued to change:

snakes/other reptiles--*-->fire dragons--->cold winged dragons--->winged fire dragons

as you can see the logic of evolving forms does fit rather well.

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*[non-fire dragons perhaps(but since they really didn't have an attack were not utilized except to be built upon)--->]


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Glaurung
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Going back to your question Earendilyon, I was going to talk about Tolkien's dragons seeing that I was talking about it in the Silmarillion forum. The only dragons I have heard of are Ancalagon, Glaurung, Smaug and Scatha.
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Glaurung
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Earendilyon, how do you know whether I've read the Silm. or not?
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Cernunnos
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There is a gd dragon in Farmer Giles of Ham, Chrysophylax Dives.

In China, where dinosaur fossils are common, they used to call them 'dragons' bones', prob orig an attempt to work out what kind of creature could have produced such remains. In a similar way, the myth of the one-eyed cyclops may have arisen in the Greek islands becos of the bones of prehistoric elephants fnd there (elephant skulls look like they have an eye-hole in the centre of the fore-head - actually the nasal cavity).

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Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.


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Earendilyon
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Glaurung, I thought you would want to know more about Tolkien's dragons, so I pointed you to the Silm, where there's all the info on them I know. Mb I should have pointed you also to UT and HoMe, but I don't know whether they have more info on the dragons than the Silm.
I'm sorry if I offended you.

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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Kinda interesting:

quote:
Have I said anything to suggest the final ending of dragons? If so it should be altered. The only passage I can think of is Vol. I p. 70 : 'there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough'. But that implies, I think, that there are still dragons, if not of full primeval stature.(letter 144)

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Glaurung
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No offense taken, Earendilyon
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Orome
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thanks for the info guys

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Orome
And Justice For All!!!
(all those who deserve it anyway)


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Erati
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Theres a book called J.R.R Tolkein and it has a whole chapter on dragons. you ppl should cheak it out!
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Glaurung
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What's the ISBN for this book you're talking about Erati?
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