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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » Tauriel (Page 5)
Author Topic: Tauriel
Tigranes
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You guys really think that? Wow.
For all we know, their species might not even be compatible. Putting aside the issue that Legolas/Gimli would be a homosexual relationship, which doesn't occur anywhere else in Tolkien's work, so let's focus on "Tauriel"/Kíli: Elf/man is already a stretch and more a case of "it works because the author says so", but Elf/dwarf??
If dogs were intelligent and could talk, would that make you want to mate with them?

[ 02-02-2014, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
You could say Legolas was "bromancing the stone"
That was bad. []

quote:
Don’t let PJ and his convoluted ideas twist your knowledge Tolkien’s works.
Read it first, thought it before I saw it. []

Anyway, Frodo WAS an elf-friend and a ring-bearer, so he had a legitimate reason for going on the ship. Same for Bilbo. Gimli only had much time for two elves IIRC, so not much of an elf-friend. Also he didn't have the excuse of being a ring-bearer for going west.

Back to the title-lady, I do think that Tauriel/Kili is meant to mirror Legolas/Gimli in a way. (BTW who's seen the EE of AUJ? Rivendell's got a nice addition relating to DoS's elf-dwarf thing.)

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Gollum Gollum
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quote:
Gimli only had much time for two elves IIRC, so not much of an elf-friend. Also he didn't have the excuse of being a ring-bearer for going west.
Well, he deffinitely passed more time with elves than Frodo did. []
I think (but it's only my prejudgement, no proofs for that) that Gimli was allowed to go because his friendship with Legolas ends the conflict between elves and dwarves. Both sides learn that the other ones aren't "bad".
quote:
I do think that Tauriel/Kili is meant to mirror Legolas/Gimli in a way.
I wouldn't agree but for the "in a way" [] . IMO it's supposed to be a prelude to Legolas/Gimli in the sense of elf-dwarf not hating each other for the very fact of it. But I will NEVER agree with the theory of some of you that Legolas/Gimli is more than friendship. [] Tolkien deffinitely wouldn't want such an interpretation. []
quote:
BTW who's seen the EE of AUJ?
I've seen just the extended parts on Youtube (so I may not have seen all of them). But what I saw I didn't like. The dwarves are not fools so why make them ones. []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
Tolkien deffinitely wouldn't want such an interpretation. []
Then he shouldn't have written it that way and you need to learn to spell definitely... Anyway, IMO that is a pathetic reason for anyone being allowed onto one of the ships (if he could go for that then most of the Fellowship could go for one reason or another)... So it's probably right. It would be about as annoying/awful as the end of the Aragorn-Arwen story. []

quote:
The dwarves are not fools so why make them ones.
How do we know? Most of them never DO anything in the book.
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Tigranes
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This really is two issues at once.

One, friendship:
The books were written in an age where friendship between men was celebrated, so the style is not at all unusual or suspicious.
Tolkien himself was a Christian conservative, in a happy marriage, and with no indication whatsoever of leaning the other way. He did however have a circle of friends. It is perfectly possible for a man to develop a deep friendship with another being (usually another man, or a sibling/other family member of either sex) without any sexual component.
This is Tolkien, not Thomas Mann we're talking about.

Two, interspecies romance:
Like I said, Elves and Dwarves are biologically way more different than Elves and Men. This is even shown in their very creation. I think it's an absurd notion that members of the two species would romance each other. Why would they? Just because they're both bipedal sentient humanoids?
This is not Star Trek we're talking about, nor Mass Effect.

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Snöwdog
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quote:
You guys really think that? Wow.
Naw, I just said I raised my eyebrows at the thought back in the day when I first read the books, Never seriously considered that Legolas was sitting on Gimli's pillar of stone. Don't know what PJ was thinking

Tauriel on the other hand... maybe she was angling for a Kili-Fili sandwich???

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Tolkien had an odd marriage IMO, but that's another argument for another thread. []

I don't remember PJ suggesting anything was going on between Legolas and Gimli. I got it entirely from the book.

Anyway, [] for Tauriel and Tauriel/Kili. May they have a happy ending and lots of freaky little children. It'd be so much fun! [] TH's ending is so forced it could use a few changes and a bit of happiness.

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Aiwrendel
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Are we really sure Gimli went with Legolas? Are there any other references to this outside of LotR Appendix B? I don't have time to look right now.

Forth Age 1541
In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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quote:
I am not a wacky slash fic writer. . .
quote:
Tauriel/Kili. May they have a happy ending and lots of freaky little children.
You were saying? []

Anyway Tigranes, Aiwrendel and GollumGollum have all made good points. Elves and Dwarves are not different races, they are different species. Yes, it would take a Silm quote to prove that. Suffice it to say that Elves and Men are all Chidren of Iluvatar and Dwarves are not, they were created independantly by a Vala acting outside of Eru's song.

Elves do not go all [] over dwarves, and Tolkien's Arda is heteronormative. q.e.d. Tolkien was a product of his era, during which homosexuality was considered shameful and salacious, but brotherly love by which deep friendship is meant was celebrated. Might as well try to claim that Tolkien and Lewis were all [] together. []

I did not mention incest, nor was I the first to bring up the Legolas/Gimli [] ship in this thread.

I only tried to apologize for using the terms "bromance" and "bro-love" differently from y'all and your standard Webster dictionary of common slang becoming legitimate English. In my mind it still makes more sense to combine brother+romance = bromance meaning a romantic relationship between two men, and bro-love as short for brotherly love. Phileo. When in doubt I fall back on the Greek. I can't help it; it's the language of both Christian theology and medicine, in which my life is steeped.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Don't say we have come now to the end; White shores are calling.
You and I will meet again.
Across the sea a pale moon rising; the ships have come to carry you home.
And all will turn to silver glass; A light on the water
Grey Ships pass into the West.

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Snöwdog
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quote:
Forth Age 1541
In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

A convenient closer for the last overlooked character of the fellowship.

And of course Legolas & Gimli didn't [] for each other. It sure was fun stirring it up here though

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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Snowy you remain my favorite troll. []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Don't say we have come now to the end; White shores are calling.
You and I will meet again.
Across the sea a pale moon rising; the ships have come to carry you home.
And all will turn to silver glass; A light on the water
Grey Ships pass into the West.

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Aiwrendel
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quote:
In my mind it still makes more sense to combine brother+romance = bromance meaning a romantic relationship between two men, and bro-love as short for brotherly love.
I agree. The first time I read the word bromance I thought the same thing. Gee. Yet another word for gay men. I had to go to the Urban Dictionary (urbandictionary.com) to find it wasn't what I thought. Too much street speak! []

Back to the other off topic discussion.

LotR Appendix A
quote:
He [Gimli] was named Elf-friend because of the great love that grew between him and Legolas, son of King Thranduil, and because of his reverence for the Lady Galadriel.
quote:
But when King Elessar gave up his life Legolas followed at last the desire of his heart and sailed over Sea.

Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book
We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Glóin's son with him because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love, or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it. But it is said that Gimli went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him. More cannot be said of this matter.

Note: I didn't add "Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book". It is in Appendix A.


And now, Tauriel. Who?

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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I would say that Gimli's fascination with Galadriel would be further proof that the Legolas/Gimli 'ship was a friendship, not a [] -ship, but it will probably fall only on deaf ears and the ears of those that already agree with me on that point.

I could also infer from that, that if any of the dwarves in TH were predisposed to fall in love with an elf (male or maiden, though my odds would be on maiden), it would be Gloîn, not Kili.

Movie!Kili makes for better eye-candy than Movie!Gloîn, though, by a longshot. []

Movie!Kili looks adorable with Tauriel. But a dwarf/elf-maiden romance still doesn't make sense in Tolkien's Ardaverse. Because they are not separate races (so don't go labeling me miscegenation-o-phobic), but separate species.

Incidentally: DQ, you're just like your mother, dismissing an otherwise well-thought-out post on the basis of a single misspelled word. Especially when definitely is one of the most commonly misspelled words in the English language.

Whenever I come across a difference in word usage with someone I know to live in England not America, I assume it is down to a difference between British English (commonly abbreviated BrEnglish) and American English (and yes I am aware that U.K. citizens LOVE to claim that the language Americans speak isn't really English).

It's an old saw, and its teeth have gone quite dull from overuse. It's also nothing to take offense over; if I went around all [] every time I discovered that someone has different connotations for a word or a phrase that I used, I'd be on a constant rampage.

It's taken a while, but I've gotten to the point where I just shrug my shoulders and carry on.

[ 02-05-2014, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: LyraLuthien Tinuviel ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Don't say we have come now to the end; White shores are calling.
You and I will meet again.
Across the sea a pale moon rising; the ships have come to carry you home.
And all will turn to silver glass; A light on the water
Grey Ships pass into the West.

From: GreyHavens via Puget Sound | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
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quote:
Elves do not go all [] over dwarves, and Tolkien's Arda is heteronormative.
quote:
The idea that the honorable term Elf-friend goes beyond a close platonic relationship is silly.
quote:
And of course Legolas & Gimli didn't [] for each other.
quote:
I would say that Gimli's fascination with Galadriel would be further proof that the Legolas/Gimli 'ship was a friendship, not a [] -ship
Thanks, Lyra, Aiwrendel and Snöwdog. I'm happy that you people don't have a [] interpretation of Tolkien's works.
quote:
but it will probably fall only on deaf ears and the ears of those that already agree with me on that point.
To convince DQI may be difficult indeed! []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
You were saying? []
I was saying I don't write fanfic. I can still invent endings to TH. []

quote:
Might as well try to claim that Tolkien and Lewis were all [] together. []
OMG you didn't know that they weren't? Where have you people BEEN! []

quote:
Incidentally: DQ, you're just like your mother, dismissing an otherwise well-thought-out post on the basis of a single misspelled word. Especially when definitely is one of the most commonly misspelled words in the English language.
I answered as much of that post as I would have had it all been correctly spelt. However, I take what I'm sure you meant as an insult as a great compliment.

Also, just because it is a common mistake does NOT make it any less wrong. []

quote:
The first time I read the word bromance I thought the same thing. Gee. Yet another word for gay men. I had to go to the Urban Dictionary (urbandictionary.com) to find it wasn't what I thought. Too much street speak! []
I'm stunned. I'm about as out of touch with modern slang as it's possible to be and even I understood that one without looking it up. []

E:

quote:
American English (and yes I am aware that U.K. citizens LOVE to claim that the language Americans speak isn't really English)
Well, it ISN'T English. That's why everyone calls it American English...

quote:
To convince DQI may be difficult indeed! []
I have no intention of being "convinced" out of my opinions by ANYONE, so yes, difficult not to say impossible. Well said.

[ 02-05-2014, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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Grace, grace and more grace.
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Gollum Gollum
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Indeed...
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Snöwdog
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... and a bit of [] . I suppose [] is one thing, but [] [] is another... [] []

Back to Tauriel... she likes orcs...

 -

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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[] Troll. We need a kiss smiley...

 -

Because you're my favorite troll, Snowy.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Don't say we have come now to the end; White shores are calling.
You and I will meet again.
Across the sea a pale moon rising; the ships have come to carry you home.
And all will turn to silver glass; A light on the water
Grey Ships pass into the West.

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Well you can see why she'd like that orc. Fine beast... []

[ 02-06-2014, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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Snöwdog
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[] Ladonna is stalking me! Since when posting a pic of Tauriel in the Tauriel thread trolling? [] []
Carrying on family battles in various threads for weeks on end would be more so I think.

One thing to note on that Taruiel/Orc pic... her hands aren't shown.... [] []

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Maia Olorin
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Did it ever occur to anyone that Tolkien wrote that epilogue for Gimli and Legolas to get fans off his back with their incessant nit-picky questions? 'And what happened after that? And that? And that, too?' "THEY WENT ON A BOAT TOGETHER TO THE UNDYING LANDS!!!! THE END!!!'

[]

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Snöwdog
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[] Maia!
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Maybe fans wouldn't have "incessant nit-picky questions" if Tolkien had proof-read and then fixed some of those gaping plot-holes. [] Might have made a great work just that little bit greater if he had...
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Gollum Gollum
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But mystery is always attractive... If everything was 100% clear, it wouldn't be that interesting.
When I was reading LotR for the first time, I had no idea that Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc. existed. So parts like: "But if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador and Húrin, and Túrin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them." or "Later! Yes, when you also have the keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards" were great because they were unclear. []
And even though I read LotR three more times (after reading Silm. etc.) and always loved it, it has lost part of its magic. [] Sometimes I prefer mysteries to remain unsolved...

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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