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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » Tauriel (Page 3)
Author Topic: Tauriel
Snöwdog
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I think her acting abiility could have pulled it off with ease.
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Gollum Gollum
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quote:
She's not my idea of Arwen. A bit too assosciated with fiesty characters for that IMO.
I agree. [] I think that E. Lilly could play the role of Arwen well enough, but her face is not "noble" enough, if you know what I mean. Arwen was supposed to be the fairest of elven maidens, save Luthien. So visually Liv Tyler was IMO better for the role. And E. Lilly is really good as Tauriel. The only thing I don't like is her red hair. []

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Tigranes
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I don't give a damn about her hair colour, and anyway I think that Elves should be allowed at least two hair colours per ethnicity, but her character is just soooo superfluous, like 80% of the movie. It's one of the typical women characters of today's media that are just as clichéd and unrealistic as those of the 50s with their squeaky voices and incompetent behaviour. Although "Tauriel" is less annoying than some others.

I also think that while Liv Tyler wasn't totally "wrong looking", they could've chosen a better fitting actress for the part. Maybe Ms Lilly would've made a better Arwen, who knows.

[ 01-10-2014, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
It's one of the typical women characters of today's media that are just as clichéd and unrealistic as those of the 50s with their squeaky voices and incompetent behaviour.
She is in no way incompetent. []
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Tigranes
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That part was referring to 50s women's movie roles.
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Snöwdog
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quote:
Gollum² said: "I think that E. Lilly could play the role of Arwen well enough, but her face is not "noble" enough, if you know what I mean. Arwen was supposed to be the fairest of elven maidens, save Luthien. So visually Liv Tyler was IMO better for the role."
You're kidding, right? IMO Liv was wrong for the part for the same reasons you say she was right for it. Maybe Evangeline wouldn't be the right fit as Arwen, but IMO she would have been better.

And in the context of the whole PJ fantasy movie franchise that sadly wears the moniker of The Hobbit, Tauriel was about as good as could be expected.

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
That part was referring to 50s women's movie roles.
In which case, your English could be clearer. []
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Snöwdog
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Maybe they're not English... []
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Gollum Gollum
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quote:
IMO Liv was wrong for the part for the same reasons you say she was right for it. Maybe Evangeline wouldn't be the right fit as Arwen, but IMO she would have been better.
[]
It's hard to make a good Arwen. She's supposed to be beautiful, noble... and that's all. She just is, but there's no life in her. So it's difficult to make such a character interesting.

Anyway, there were so many defects in PJ's LOTR, even in the cast*, that I'm not gonna complain about a character who is not that important. I agree that Evangeline would have played it better, but in the visual aspect I still prefer Liv. And I think that in case of Arwen, the visual aspect is the more important one. In the book, she appears only two or three times (not counting the Appendix) and it's all about how beautiful she is.

*Frodo not withstanding []

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Tigranes
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Well Arwen is not a main character in the book, so why make her one. There's no need to have a big love story in every movie, or an equal number of male and female characters. It's just the stupid movie formula somebody invented many decades ago that everyone keeps following.

If they wanted to make a movie exploring the backstory of certain characters or focusing on female characters, they should have adapted the appendices, UT, and/or the Silmarillion. Instead of twisting LotR and The Hobbit into something these books were not about originally, including a lot of fan fiction.


quote:
Maybe they're not English...
The movies I'm referring to are American, mostly.

edit: nvm.

[ 01-11-2014, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Gollum Gollum
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[] [] [] Tigranes
That's exactly what I meant []

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
Well Arwen is not a main character in the book, so why make her one.
I wouldn't call her a main character in the films, but she needed to be upped a little in importance. Tolkien just throws her in at the end only to have Aragorn treat her awfully in the appendices. If you're only going to do that you might as well cut her out entirely.

quote:
There's no need to have a big love story in every movie, or an equal number of male and female characters.
If you're going to have a big wedding that people are supposed to be vaguely interested in, it helps if you've seen a little of both bride and groom. There's nowhere near an equal number of each gender, but the near-total lack of ladies in Tolkien does little to appeal to most audiences and says much about JRRT himself IMO. []

quote:
Maybe they're not English... []
Possibly not, but that doesn't make the sentence any clearer. []

quote:
It's hard to make a good Arwen. She's supposed to be beautiful, noble... and that's all. She just is, but there's no life in her. So it's difficult to make such a character interesting.
Very true. There's little life in many of the characters but the women are truly awful. They needed giving a bit of a spark.

Also, [] for most of the casting. Particularly in LotR - exactly as I imagined them. Apart from Frodo and Sam, but Elijah's so good I'll let him off and I just don't like Sean Astin. []

[ 01-11-2014, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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Tigranes
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quote:
I wouldn't call her a main character in the films, but she needed to be upped a little in importance. Tolkien just throws her in at the end only to have Aragorn treat her awfully in the appendices. If you're only going to do that you might as well cut her out entirely.
If you're going to have a big wedding that people are supposed to be vaguely interested in, it helps if you've seen a little of both bride and groom.

Objection noted. However Aragorn is not the main character either. Their wedding and its lead-up is more of a backdrop for the main plot.


quote:
There's nowhere near an equal number of each gender, but the near-total lack of ladies in Tolkien does little to appeal to most audiences
I think you are underestimating female audiences here. Despite the recent craze to have characters representing each sex, colour, race, and sexual orientation in every single movie, history shows us that if the material is good enough on its own, the attributes of the characters don't need to match those of the audience.
And if people want to see "more of [x]", they should just write those books themselves.


quote:
[...] and says much about JRRT himself IMO.

To me, it just says hat he was probably not comfortable writing female characters. Because while you can obviously compensate through logic and social experience with the other sex, you still can't be entirely sure of how it actually feels like to be one of them. There's no shame in that. Other authors have been bolder, some successfully so, others... less.

Another aspect is that Tolkien's writings fall into a genre that doesn't much rely on complex characters and everyday interaction.


quote:
Possibly not, but that doesn't make the sentence any clearer.
See above. I'm afraid I'm not always as eloquent as I'd like to be, regardless of idiom, and that, as of late, my English has suffered a little due to myself having to learn yet another foreign language. Also, communicating via the internet does one's language skills no favour.
Bottom line, if you make fun of somebody's sentence structure, make sure (s)he's a native speaker before proceeding. Otherwise, unfortunate implications.


quote:
Very true. There's little life in many of the characters but the women are truly awful. They needed giving a bit of a spark.
If that be the case, Jackson and team clearly failed in their mission.


quote:
and I just don't like Sean Astin.

Why not? Is he a douche? Because visually, I found him quite fitting and I can't remember hearing any complaints from other people in that regard.
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
Objection noted. However Aragorn is not the main character either.
IMO LotR doesn't have one main character, seeing as the title character is a giant eye and the important ones are a Fellowship. As one of the Fellowship, I would call Aragorn a main character.

quote:
I think you are underestimating female audiences here.
I actually meant guys liking something to ogle at. []

quote:
To me, it just says hat he was probably not comfortable writing female characters.
How does that account for the ones he does write mostly being drips? Or just selfish like Éowyn.

quote:
Bottom line, if you make fun of somebody's sentence structure, make sure (s)he's a native speaker before proceeding.
I do not believe I was making fun at any point.

quote:
If that be the case, Jackson and team clearly failed in their mission.
Disagree with you enturely, but you're a film-hater and I can appreciate both books and films so we'd better call that one quits. []

quote:
Why not? Is he a douche? Because visually, I found him quite fitting and I can't remember hearing any complaints from other people in that regard.
I wouldn't have put it like that, but yes, from what I've heard of him. Visually he's fine, but he's a very angry and nasty Sam IMO.
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Tigranes
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quote:
IMO LotR doesn't have one main character, seeing as the title character is a giant eye and the important ones are a Fellowship. As one of the Fellowship, I would call Aragorn a main character.
IIRC the author said something to the effect that Sam was the real main character. In any case, it's pretty obvious that the character focus is on the four hobbits, after all they get most of the character development and they're the PoV characters (IIRC, the only ones). The other members of the party, not so much.


quote:
I actually meant guys liking something to ogle at.
I see. How considerate [] But I think male audiences aren't that single-minded, either.


quote:
How does that account for the ones he does write mostly being drips? Or just selfish like Éowyn.
As I've tried to explain earlier, you have to take into account genre and time period (of the author). And even if his women characters are lacking in variety and quantity. So what? He's not the worst offender in that regard, in fact pretty "liberal" given his time and religion.
Regarding Éowyn, she's a really desperate character until she's healed. I can understand her motivation very well (unlike, for example, that psycho girl from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, who was just annoying, selfish, and useless. Oh and brutal). I don't think Éowyn is particularly selfish. Not very prudent, perhaps. Then again, she's (almost) broken until the very end of the novel.
(I suppose you could say that Arwen is "broken" as well, but only in the video game sense of the word [] I.e. a Mary Sue, albeit in the background). Movie! Legolas, however, is a Mary Sue in the foreground.
Speaking of which, Tauriel is seriously imba in Desolation of Smaug. Maybe she should be nerfed for the next movie?


quote:
Visually he's fine, but he's a very angry and nasty Sam IMO.
Part of that could be due to the script though. Forced conflict and all that...

[ 01-12-2014, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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I didn't say anyone was that single-minded, just that I thought it improved a film to have a little variety. Who wants to look at 13 dwarves and one hobbit for hours on end? []

Account taken but we're talking about Tolkien, not his contemporaries. Besides, he managed to make something of Éowyn. As for her, troubled or not, she's no real excuse for totally abandoning her country and duty. What, exactly, was Rohan supposed to do if all three of them had been killed? It was also very irresponsible to take Merry. Hobbits aren't meant for horse-back battles against orcs. Yes, I know, they take down the Witch-king and are therefore let off their stupidity, but it's still ridiculous.

I found it to be more how Sean Astin delivered the lines, than the lines themselves. I don't remember Sam being much altered in the films, other than his reluctance to give up the Ring.

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Maia Olorin
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I thought Rosie Cotton was very pretty. []

I keep seeing 'Kate' from 'Lost' every time I see Evangeline.

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Snöwdog
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quote:
I thought Rosie Cotton was very pretty. []
Rosie is Hot!
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Rosie? Really? []
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Gollum Gollum
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I don't think so...

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Snöwdog
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Yes, really. Sarah McLeod is a beautiful actress with talent. []
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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I agree she's talented, I'm not really in a position to judge the other criteria. []
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Maia Olorin
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I might find her furry feet a bit of a turn-off, though. And I am almost 2 meters tall, so that might be an impediment. []
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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[]
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Snöwdog
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quote:
I might find her furry feet a bit of a turn-off, though. And I am almost 2 meters tall, so that might be an impediment.
You can have Rosie, I'll take Sarah. []
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