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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » Purist Rage - Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities! (Page 6)
Author Topic: Purist Rage - Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities!
Snöwdog
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quote:
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Tolkien
[]
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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quote:
Can PJ manage to make a movie without plagiarizing scenes from other movies?
The question is, can any fantasy/adventure film made since LotR manage not to take something from PJ or Howard Shore? []
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Snöwdog
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quote:
The question is, can any fantasy/adventure film made since LotR manage not to take something from PJ or Howard Shore?
Yes
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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I'm sure there's been one, but most of them have used something. []
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Gollum Gollum
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Yeah, especially Narnia. Some of the scenes were exactly the same... []
quote:
Bilbo taking off the ring so Smaug can see him without being instantly toasted? Really?
[]
quote:
This of course is the way to talk to dragons, if you don't want to reveal your proper name (which is wise), and don't want to infuriate them by a flat refusal (which is also very wise). No dragon can resist the fascination of riddling talk and of wasting time trying to understand it. There was a lot here which Smaug did not understand at all [...].
from: The Hobbit, chapter 12 "Inside information"

Maybe Smaug was already so "fascinated" that it didn't really matter whether he saw Bilbo or not. What's more, he was actually awaiting the hobbit - and maybe wanted to see him...

However, I agree with Aiwrendel. Why? Beacause PJ would never come up with that []

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We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aiwrendel
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Thanks, Gollum2. I was hoping someone would mention the reason why Smaug didn’t flame Bilbo when he first smelled him. Smaug could have blown Bilbo away before he got to the tunnel entrance but was too curious and thirsty for information. That, at least, was depicted in the movie but Bilbo, wearing the Ring, only peeked out of the tunnel entrance on his second visit and then...
quote:
"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare!"

But Bilbo was not quite so unlearned in dragon-lore as all that, and if Smaug hoped to get him to come nearer so easily he was disappointed. <snip> Bilbo peeped once more from the entrance. <snip> He [Smaug] was watching the tunnel entrance! Hurriedly Bilbo stepped back...

Bilbo never left the tunnel on his second visit.

Had Bilbo left the entrance to the tunnel when Smaug was aware of him he would have trapped and cooked ring or no ring. There would have been no escape. Dodging and hiding behind pillars and piles of treasure would have been futile. The scene was ridiculous. The whole scene seemed too much like the Harry Potter movie where he was chased by the giant snake. Just another stolen scene from another movie.

Well. That was a proper rant. []

[ 01-25-2014, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Aiwrendel ]

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Gollum Gollum
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Finally downloaded the AUJ soundtrack...
Why is the Nazgul-theme in the Erebor-destruction scene?!? [] []

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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It's probably the theme for winged villains.
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Gollum Gollum
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Theoretically it could, but...
1) the Nazgul have no wings in FotR, but the theme is the same - which would suggest that it's simply the Nazgul-theme
2) IMO the soundtracks in those films are really good, so I have no idea why they wouldn't create a separate theme for Smaug (or maybe they did, but I didn't notice it...)

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

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Cernunnos
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quote:
plagiarising
In a sense, Tolkien himself 'plagiarised' Beowulf, the Norse myths, rune-lore, etc. But the creative influence of ancient sources is different from mere unimaginative copying.

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Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.

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Snöwdog
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'But, werent the books made from the movies?

(Yes, I have seen this question a few times on other sites. Too many kids think Peter Jackson came up with Lord of the Rings.... [] [] )

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Gollum Gollum
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Really?!?!?! [] [] [] []
God, what's going on?
But on the other hand... PJ put the "based on the book by JRR Tolkien" information at the very end of the films (so nobody reads it) [] []

[ 02-20-2014, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Gollum Gollum ]

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Aiwrendel
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quote:
Tolkien himself 'plagiarised' Beowulf, the Norse myths, rune-lore, etc
Not to mention Mother Goose.

Hey Diddle Diddle.
[]

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Snöwdog
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It was a prediction of someone on a Tolkien board back in 1999 that making movies of Lord of the Rings would end the mythos of Tolkien. I blew it off at the time, but now, I think they were right. [] []
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Pilgrim
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Tolkien didn't actually plagiarize Beowulf. Reading Lotr or TH does not make me think of a Dane loping off the arm of a deranged beast in a dining hall. Similar imagery may have been employed with the description of Bilbo and the dwarves in the halls of Beorn, a "beast" or skin changer. Though Beorn is as much like Grendel as a trained guard dog (who is also it's human owner) is like a wolverine. In like manner, the halls of Edoras are only vaguely comparable with King Hrothgar's barn, and while the re-united company of the ring sleeps in the hall, just as Beowulf and co. does at HG's place, the scenarios are vastly different.

[ 03-11-2014, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim ]

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...to carry a pistol instead of a walking stick.

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Madomir
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I finally saw Hobbit 2, and with very few exceptions (Martin Freeman's performance for one) it was absolutely dreadful. The list of complaints is so long I hardly know where to start.

Did anyone other than PJ envision Beorn being skinny? Is Wingnut so desperate for fight scenes that they really need the orcs to chase and attack the dwarves at absolutely every turn? Talk about overkill. The entire trip/fight down the river is one of the most ridiculous and embarassingly stupid cinematic sequences ever recorded. Isn't it bad enough that PJ's elves have super fighting powers akin to Disney's Incredibles but now the orcs and even the dwarves possess them too? And why is it gravity doesn't seem to work in PJ's middle earth? All types of beings make ludicrous leaps and jumps, we have orcs scaling 18 pitch roofs without a hint of a slip. All of this before we even get to Erebor! Could Thorin be more of an ass? He takes one step inside the 'secret mountain passage' and starts with the "I know these walls" rhetoric. NO you don't, you've never seen that passage before! The passage was secret, Thorin never used it nor did he even know about it if memory serves. And of course, floating down a river of molten gold in a wheelbarrow tub, with his fingers wrapped around the rim mere inches from the scorching hot golden lava! Can we have just a touch of realism.. please?

Of the 5 debacles thus far, this one just might be the worst. It's right there with Fellowship as most wretch inducing.

EDIT: I actually meant Two Towers was the most horrid, not FotR []

[ 03-14-2014, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Gollum Gollum
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Wow, Madomir, that's the best review of Desolation I've ever read [] [] I agree 100%


[whispering] except for that line about FotR - because FotR is the one I like most, [/whispering] though "like" is not the best word because I don't like any of them. But I also think that DoS was the worst one (so far...)

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Madomir
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My mistake Gollum, I actually meant Two Towers, not Fellowship. I agree with you, Fellowship was the least objectionable of the 1st 3 movies.
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Gollum Gollum
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If so, I do agree 100%, Madomir []
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Pilgrim
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Unfortunately for a critically superfluous audience, realism is as boring as watching wood rust...if you get my meaning. [] And you're right, not everyone should be aloud to perform spring-powered, cricket-like gymnastics and leap through the air like a cartoon character whose pants are on fire.

How ironic that, out of all the characters, Smaug, the quasi-supernatural dragon, was conveyed with the greatest degree of mythical believability. At least at first. He is a vastly powerful creature in the film, fused with a rolling, effortless, and deep-delving intelligence with the awareness of a queen bee in it's hive. And yet...when he gets the opportunity to show his talents at investigating the outside of the mountain like a stealthy, deadly monster, we instead find him chasing the dwarves (which never happened) whilst slamming into pillars and other objects in the mountain that make him look like a smoking freight train, driven by Jar-Jar Binks.

Despite being a supremely crafty character, he somehow activates that fight-or-flight part of his brain that says: "You're actually an overgrown chicken trying to find it's head!" (although, if his brain told him that it would have to be connected to his body, which if he actually was a chicken with it's head cut off then his behavior with the dwarves would make a lot of sense). []

[ 03-19-2014, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim ]

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...to carry a pistol instead of a walking stick.

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Madomir
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Well Pilgrim , obviously PJ had a choice to make regarding Smaug hunting the dwarfs. If he had opted for Tolkien's version of hunting outside the mountain we would have seen the majesty of a full grown dragon at the peak of his powers soaring around the mountain. We would have felt the strenth of his wings as he beat up a wind storm to harry the dwarves and they could have ended the episode with Smaug perched upon Erebor's peak with his wings outstretched and fire streaming from his mouth.

However, if he had done that we would have lost the under the mountain chase which included, among other things, the aforementioned dragon clumsiness, Thorin's exceedingly realistic canoe trip down the lazy river of 800+ deg C molten gold and who can forget Bilbo's golden (coin) shower, courtesy of the dragon.

The truly sad part is, I bet the choice was easy for PJ []

[ 03-21-2014, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Aiwrendel
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Yeah. Why bother creating a dramatic scene that sparks the imagination as one leaves the theater and makes one wonder what sinister plans the dragon might have when you can show Indiana Jones in a mine cart being chased by a giant stone ball... or a dwarf floating down a river of molten metal?
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Cernunnos
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The adventure movie convention that the hero somehow doesn't get fried despite being mere feet from 1000 C lava is one of the silliest things in these sorts of films. Some things become less and less possible to show as time goes on - people simply know too much these days to take them seriously. PJ, however, has yet to catch up - and he's from the volcanic hot-spot of New Zealand! Mind you, even Thorin's wheel-barrow ride isn't quite as ludicrous as the lava-pit scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. []

The Star Trek (and Star Wars) films still have the equally inane convention of space vehicles accelerating so fast the stars appear as streaks from the point of view of the passengers, something which in real life would:

a) destroy the vehicle, and
b) even if it didn't, leave anyone on board as a thin layer of organic soup against the rear wall of the ship.

AND being able to hear their engines in deep space.

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Madomir
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You're right Cernunnos, but at least with space travel the impossibilities still fall within the realm of more or less theoretical. Folks who actually give it some thought realize that speed of light travel, if possible, wouldn't be that way; however plenty of folks don't know enough to doubt it.

But with Thorin's ride in the wheel barrow it's different. There are simply too many real life parallels for anyone to buy it's feasibility. Any high school culinary arts student who has ever placed a frying pan on a burner knows that Thorin's tub would have at the very least gotten unbearably hot riding a river of molten gold. It's ridiculous to the point of insulting the intelligence of the viewer. Yet, amazingly PJ keep dishing this garbage out and the public keeps eating it up.

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Lighten up, they're films not reality. [] If you want to watch people fry in lava go and live near a volcano. []

Space films would be utterly ridiculous if you could hear nothing in the fight scenes! []

[ 04-12-2014, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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