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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » Purist Rage - Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities! (Page 3)
Author Topic: Purist Rage - Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities!
Cernunnos
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I think the whole Azog/Moria thing has been introduced in anticipation of the third film, to explain:

1) Where the **** all these goblins & wargs have suddenly appeared from at the Battle of Five Armies.
2) To make Thorin a much more heroic figure than he is (at first) in TH, spouting long-winded nonsense like a Victorian stage-Yorkshireman.

I think it would have been better to show the Battle of Azanulbizar as it is in LotR's appendix, tho', as Thorin would still have seemed heroic, but it would have:

a) Introduced Dáin, whom we will meet again in film #3 (and why not, since Thranduil is shown in #1?).
b) Shown the best bit of pure 'dwarvery' in the whole cannon.
c) Been an excellent link in with FotR, with Dáin shown looking in through the Gate of Moria (no need to hint at what he's seeing - his face would say it all), and then one of the best bits of dialogue in the whole Tolkien opus:
quote:
You are the father of our Folk, and we have bled for you, and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-dûm. You will not enter Khazad-dûm. Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria.
Positively Shakespearean - at least as good as anything in the Sagas.

[ 12-20-2013, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.

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Mithrennaith
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Couldn’t say it any better!
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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Well, who knows? There are still two movies left. Maybe when Dáin is introduced (likely in There and Back Again) his role in the battle will be revealed, and his looking into Moria and seeing Durin's Bane will be brought up.
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Cernunnos
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Here's hoping, mate!

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Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.

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Snöwdog
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Who's actually looking forward to the next two installments of this sh|t?

[ 02-17-2013, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Snöwdog ]

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Madomir
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quote:
I think the whole Azog/Moria thing has been introduced in anticipation of (presumably) the third film
Reasonable enough, but of course the trouble starts when PJ, in his boundless arrogance, tries to 'improve' it.

quote:
There are still two movies left. Maybe when Dáin is introduced (likely in There and Back Again) his role in the battle will be revealed, and his looking into Moria and seeing Durin's Bane will be brought up.
Now he has to flash back yet again in order to fill gaps that he himself has created. How is that better than doing it the way Tolkien wrote it? Just change for the sake of change. []
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Yup. Sucked.

(The Dread Pirate Roberts is still alive and well. A bit changed, perhaps, but who remains static, eh?)

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Dís Thrain's Daughter
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Generally I liked the movie. Two things would bother me:

1) When Gandalf discusses with Elrond and Saruman it is said that someone else should approve his decision and this "someone else" is Galadriel. She is presented as if she had higher position than Gandalf, while Gandalf was a Maia and Galadriel was an elf.

2) Too many scenes with falling down - OK, the book does not quite contradict it, but all the scenes look much exaggerated. Thorin gets wounded at the end of part 1 - which is not the case in the book (although might contribute to the attractivity of the movie

Other things:
1) The house of Elrond was a place when the dwaeves felt very comfortable. In the film they escape very soon. Maybe the director wanted to show antagonism elves-dwarves, but there was no antagonism between dwarves and Elrond.
2) Thorin, Fili and Kili are very handsome - this is actually not contradict to the book. It is never said they were ugly. Thorin had silver beard, which is not the case in the film. And (that bothers me a little) the director gave up the ideas of specific colours for the dwarves (Thorin - sky blue, Fily & Kili - blue, Balin - red, Gloin - white, Dwalin - green, etc.). I liked this idea of colours and that's pity it was given up.

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"You always make the stupidest things sound sort of attractive.." (Roger Zelazny - "Sign of Chaos")

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Dís - They do actually all have a colour still, it's just not obvious. A few times you can see a hood LINED in the appropriate colour and they all do have a colour scheme to their outfits. Thorin's blue, Balin's red, etc. I think they're all listed in the movie guide. []
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Madomir
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A movie guide? You mean, like a book? So now there's a book about a movie that's supposedly about a book? Dear Lord, New Line is shameless.

Here's a thought, if you want a book that will tell you what's supposed to be going on in the movie, buy The Hobbit!

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Madomir
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quote:
2) Too many scenes with falling down - OK, the book does not quite contradict it, but all the scenes look much exaggerated.
Agreed Dis [] And nowhere is it more exaggerated than in the goblin caves. It's a fantasy movie, we get it, but can we try to keep things so that they are at least remotely physically possible? Gandalf and the 13 dwarfs fall into a chasm some 100 feet or more deep, to make matters worse they are then landed upon by a 400 pound nut sack, er.. I mean the Great Goblin, and yet somehow, miraculously, they all emerge unscathed. Not even a scratch!!

And here's a pet peeve of mine, why is it that everything the orcs make is so damn rickety? Half the bridges in Goblin Town were swinging around and the rest were ready to topple.. why? The goblins lived and worked there, why would everything be in such disrepair? Somewhere in Tolkien's writings (I don't know where) JRRT wrote that orcs don't make any beautiful things, but they make a great many clever or functional things (I paraphrased). Goblin Town wasn't functional, it needed to be condemned, they'd have been better off swinging around on ropes Tarzan style than using those collapsable catwalks. It all looks like stuff built by the stereotypical stupid guy in a cartoon... boards all crooked, bent nails sticking out everywhere. Isengard in the first trilogy was the same way.

(please pardon the double post [] )

[ 02-25-2013, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Madomir, you're a bit behind aren't you? They existed for every film of LotR and they are VERY interesting. It is about the making of the films, not the story. They aren't spoiler-material if you don't know the books, which is nice as not everyone does.

[ 02-25-2013, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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Madomir
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quote:
you're a bit behind aren't you?
It's more apathy than anything else. I actually own books about the books, The Atlas of Middle Earth for example. I wanted to be just as passionate about the movies as i am the books, but it simply didn't work out that way []

[ 02-26-2013, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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You need a book about a book? [] []
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Madomir
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Yup, you see unlike the movies, Tolkien's books whetted my apetite and left me hungry for more. PJ's movies mostly just leave me nauseous []
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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Tolkien's writing whets mine too, for something better written. [] I'm not so blind a fan that I can't see JRRT's mistakes as well as PJ's. []

(Let the flaming begin! I can take it. [] )

[ 02-27-2013, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: The DarkQueen Iauraearien ]

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Madomir
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quote:
I'm not so blind a fan that I can't see JRRT's mistakes as well as PJ's.
Nor am I. But even taking Tolkien's shortcomings into consideration, I'm not so blinded by the New Zealand landscape and excessive CGI usage that I can't see that JRRT's works are far superior to PJ's. []
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Aiwrendel
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[] Fight! Fight! Hey, everybody come watch...
Um.
I mean...
quote:
It's a fantasy movie, we get it, but can we try to keep things so that they are at least remotely physically possible? Gandalf and the 13 dwarfs fall into a chasm some 100 feet or more deep, to make matters worse they are then landed upon by a 400 pound nut sack, er.. I mean the Great Goblin, and yet somehow, miraculously, they all emerge unscathed. Not even a scratch!!
Just more examples of PJ copying things from other sources instead of being creative. There are many productions with these: Die Hard series, Raiders of the Lost Ark series, Wiley Coyote and Road Runner, etc. But the closest is the end of the spaceship scene in Life of Brian.

Okay, I'm also not being very creative: All of the above has been mentioned before. []

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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They're different, Madomir. Superiority is nothing to do with it.

[] Aiwrendel.

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Snöwdog
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The PJ movie apologist in the Purist Rage thread aside, I know exactly where you're coming from Madomir.
quote:
Tolkien's books whetted my apetite and left me hungry for more. PJ's movies mostly just leave me nauseous
Yes, and unfortunately, I think PJ has hijacked the works to some degree with his overkill of his vision. Tolkien's writings, shortfalls and all, are much superior to PJ's version of Tolkien's tales. Having seen the Hobbit movie once, for free mind you, I don't ever plan on seeing it again. The only reason I watched Fellowship so many times was because I was caught up in the hype of the day. Don't ever plan on watching any of those movies ever again either. Read The Hobbit and the Trilogy? Yes, will be doing that again, and again in future years.
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Pilgrim
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I think it's amazing how many mistakes Jackson consciously made with such a huge budget to work with! I suppose one of those was making up for previous mistakes by working in a seclusive, dwarf-like, red-headed little man with magical powers that he somehow managed to leave out of the Lotr trilogy...i.e. Bombadil! It may have worked if Radagast was actually sane, but the fact that he was essentially the parody of a wizard in his manners and just a weird hobo with a sick (literally sick!) bachelor pad and bird bombs coming out of a hole in his hat made it obvious to any child that this wasn't really a wizard!!! Although, he does bare some resemblance to the rather run-down wizard Psamathos Psamathides from Roverandom.

The events based on the chapter 'Out of the frying pan, into the fire' were just pathetic! Why did they leave out Gandalf's famous "your story has the ring of truth" line? At this point Gandalf became, in a sense, the omniscient narrator. Therefore, leaving out this relatively innocuous statement derails an incredibly important plot device! Just dumb in my opinion! And the chapter doesn't resolve when they reach the trees...it only gets worse. Was it my imagination, or didn't Gandalf throw like a TON more fiery pinecones in the book?

[ 03-27-2013, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim ]

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...to carry a pistol instead of a walking stick.

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Tuor
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This movie really sucked. Makes his first three movies look like they come right from the books.
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Amárië
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I thought the same thing, Tuor.
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Tuor
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I think the thing that bothered me the most was Bilbo seeing the ring fall from Gollum's pocket, then keeping it for himself. This would amount to stealing, which would make Biblo's aquisition of the ring an act of evil, instead of unknowingly finding it.

But hey, I suppose such things really aren't much of a concern for pj and company.

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Roll of Honor Athene
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Ugh, this makes me super glad that I followed my first instinct and didn't watch it. []

A pity, as some of the casting is great, but that's just not enough to entice me.

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