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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » First images of The Hobbit! (Page 6)
Author Topic: First images of The Hobbit!
Madomir
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quote:
What are we basing our ideas of dwarves on?
The books. Tolkien never described his dwarfs in a way that could be considered attractive or pretty but some of PJ's are clearly crafted in that fashion. Maybe it is just the stylized appearance of these pics that's turning me off.

Actually, it's difficult to think of a less dwarvish word than 'stylized'. []

[ 07-21-2011, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Roll of Honor Lillianna
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I know it's been awhile since I read the books, but Tolkien ever go into extreme detail about what they actually looked like (other than stout with large beards)? I'm honestly wondering, because Tolkien didn't normally go into lengths about his character's appearance (except maybe the elves?)
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Roll of Honor pi
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Apparently they will not come close to the book dwarves...

From Unexpected Party...

quote:
Dwalin: It was a dwarf with a blue beard tucked into a golden belt, and very bright eyes under his dark-green hood.
...
Balin: a very old-looking dwarf on the step with a white beard and a scarlet hood;
...
Fili and Kili: two more dwarves, both with blue hoods, silver belts, and yellow beards;
...
it was FIVE: Another dwarf had come along while he was wondering in the hall. He had hardly turned the knob, before they were all inside, bowing and saying "at your service" one after another. Dori, Nori, Ori, Oin, and Glóin were their names; and very soon two purple hoods, a grey hood, a brown hood, and a white hood were hanging on the pegs, and off they marched with their broad hands stuck in their gold and silver belts to join the others.
...
Let me introduce Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, and especially Thorin!"
"At your service!" said Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur standing in a row.
Then they hung up two yellow hoods and a pale green one; and also a sky-blue one with a long silver tassel. This last belonged to Thorin, an enormously important dwarf, in fact no other than the great Thorin Oakenshield himself, who was not at all pleased at falling flat on Bilbo's mat with Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur on top of him. For one thing Bombur was immensely fat and heavy.

...and their instruments...

quote:
"Now for some music!" said Thorin. "Bring out the instruments!"
Kili and Fili rushed for their bags and brought back little fiddles;
Dori, Nori, and Ori brought out flutes from somewhere inside their coats; Bombur produced a drum from the hall; Bifur and Bofur went out too, and came back with clarinets that they had left among the walking-sticks. Dwalin and Balin said: "Excuse me, I left mine in the porch!" "Just bring mine in with you," said Thorin. They came back with viols as big as themselves, and with Thorin's harp wrapped in a green cloth.


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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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As long as the look fits with the film cannon I'm cool with it.
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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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quote:
As long as the look fits with the film cannon I'm cool with it.

Ditto for me, Neytari.

Is it really hard for other people to get that?

Man, I can't wait to see how Beorn looks, and Smaug, and the Goblin King, and the spectacle of the Battle of the Five Armies!

[ 07-21-2011, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Snowman of Forochel ]

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Roll of Honor Lillianna
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Blue and yellow beards?? I hadn't remembered that. That would look ridiculous on film if they had followed that to the letter. [] So I'm glad at least they didn't go through with that.
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Roll of Honor Éomer
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 -

[ 07-22-2011, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Éomer ]

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Madomir
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quote:
I know it's been awhile since I read the books, but Tolkien ever go into extreme detail about what they actually looked like (other than stout with large beards)?
been a while since I've read the Hobbit as well but I seem to recall quite a few mentions about their large noses, perhaps in the chapters with the trolls and then the spiders.
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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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I find those dwarves prerable to these:

 -

And even these:
 -

[ 07-22-2011, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Neytari Took-Baggins ]

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Tigranes
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IMO the traditional depiction of the Dwarves are a little bit silly and I think pictures from the upcoming PJ film aren't that bad (apart from most of the swords and other "minor" details). Why not go for a "darker and edgier" look - it's certainly worth trying.
It's just that previous experiences with Jackson's interpretation have taught me to be wary.

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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"Darker and edgier" can be silly too. It usually is, IMHO.

[ 07-22-2011, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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Tigranes
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Yes, if you overdo it and produce Emos. Which hopefully isn't going to happen here. There are a few positive examples around, such as Christopher Nolan's "Dark Knight Trilogy".
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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Honestly, though, anyone that was expecting the dwarves in The Hobbit to not be based on the style established in the LOTR movies was kidding themselves. Why would the same director, production company, and concept artists suddenly change their style when they're trying to connect one set of movies to another?
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Galin
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quote:
Blue and yellow beards?? I hadn't remembered that. That would look ridiculous on film if they had followed that to the letter. So I'm glad at least they didn't go through with that.
Mostly silver-white, or let's say even silver-grey (of various shades) might not look ridiculous with a hint of blue; and as for 'yellow' I see nothing wrong with that.

Tolkien described the Vanyar as mostly yellow or golden haired, so 'yellow' needn't be some ridiculous version of yellow. It may be that initially the Dwarves were meant to seem 'outlandish' so Tolkien imagined them with quite notable and 'odd' colouring, but if true I'm not sure we can't tone things down for individual interpretations, or for a film.

Tolkien kept the colour for the 1960 Hobbit -- intended as a 'full revision' to fit better with The Lord of the Rings -- perhaps feeling that the words could stand while the interpretation could change? Or perhaps he simply liked the colours and saw nothing wrong with them; or in any case at least blue and yellow could be open to interpretation.


For myself: rather a hint of blue in a silvery beard than... let's see now... a broken weapon stuck in some Dwarf's head... to raise an example I don't think anyone would actually employ.

[]

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Madomir
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quote:
Honestly, though, anyone that was expecting the dwarves in The Hobbit to not be based on the style established in the LOTR movies was kidding themselves. Why would the same director, production company, and concept artists suddenly change their style when they're trying to connect one set of movies to another?
So by your logic the trolls in the Hobbit will be the same as the ones we saw opening the Black Gate in RotK? How disappointing. []

And for the record, I don't recall any scenes in PJ's tragedy, err... trilogy.. where Gimli appeared to have used a blow dryer or mousse... so these dwarves aren't quite the same. []

[ 07-22-2011, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Madomir ]

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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quote:
So by your logic the trolls in the Hobbit will be the same as the ones we saw opening the Black Gate in RotK? How disappointing.
I imagine they'll look somewhat similar. Similar enough to be considered related to the trolls we saw in FotR and RotK. Though of course I'm sure they'll look a little bit different, as the trolls in The Hobbit demonstrate a bit more intelligence (well, relatively speaking [] ) than the others we saw in LotR.
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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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quote:
So by your logic the trolls in the Hobbit will be the same as the ones we saw opening the Black Gate in RotK? How disappointing.
No, because the ones in LOTR were Cave Trolls. The ones that Bilbo encounters are Stone Trolls. So if they do look different, there's your reason. []

quote:
And for the record, I don't recall any scenes in PJ's tragedy, err... trilogy.. where Gimli appeared to have used a blow dryer or mousse... so these dwarves aren't quite the same.

They look slightly different from Gimli because they're from Erebor, while Gimli's people are from Moria. []

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Actually, Snowman, most of the dwarves in The Hobbit are also of Durin's Folk, like Gimli; specifically, Thorin, Bálin, Dwálin, Óin, Glóin, Fíli, and Kíli. At least those seven were all descended from dwarves who had once lived in Khazad-dûm. Gimli was born in the Blue Mountains, but later moved to Erebor after it was reclaimed for the dwarves.

[ 07-23-2011, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: Éomer ]

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Madomir
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quote:
They look slightly different from Gimli because they're from Erebor, while Gimli's people are from Moria. []
[] That's cute, it's kinda like when the 7 year old kid tries to tell Dad how to drive the car. In case you were wonderin', one of Bilbo's dwarves just happens to be Gimli's father (Gloin) so they're from the same 'people'. []

I'm suddenly reminded of a quote from earlier in this thread..

quote:
it would confuse people who saw LOTR, but never read Tolkien.
[]
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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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Doesn't matter, this is 60 years earlier, and the styles and fashions were different. I don't know and I don't care. They look great, and they don't look that much different from Gimli at all.

Just suspend your disbelief and enjoy. []

I'm definitely right about the Trolls anyway.

And I did read Tolkien, just not every other day like you, Maddo. []

Oh, and thanks for the refresher course, Eomer. [] []

[ 07-23-2011, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: Snowman of Forochel ]

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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Snowman of Forchel:
quote:
No, because the ones in LOTR were Cave Trolls.
Then how could they exist in the sunlight? Only hill-trolls could stand the sun without turning to stone, IIRC. There was a shaft of sunlight coming down in Moria where we saw the cave-troll, and all the other trolls in the movies were running around in full daylight.

[ 07-23-2011, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: Numenorean Sword Trainer ]

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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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Cave Trolls are able to withstand sunlight. They are not the same trolls that Bilbo encountered in the Trollshaws. Those were Stone Trolls.

Hill Trolls and Cave Trolls look pretty much alike, as seen in the movies. Stone Trolls are a different animal altogether, and they can talk.

Know your trolls, dude. []

[ 07-23-2011, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Snowman of Forochel ]

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Galin
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I don't recall much information about 'cave trolls' specifically, but...

quote:
'… Trolls, as you probably know, must be underground before dawn, or they go back to the stuff of the mountains they are made of,
and never move again.' The Hobbit, Roast Mutton

'… At the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in southern Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech (...) Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them.' The Return of the King, Appendix F

Bilbo's Stone-trolls spoke Westron, and generally the Olog-hai spoke little and used the Black Speech.

[ 07-23-2011, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Galin ]

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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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Good job, Galin.

I really hope PJ portrays the Stone Trolls in the Hobbit as totally different than the ones in the LOTR trilogy.

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Numenorean Sword Trainer
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I beg to differ here. This is the complete passage in the Appendix on Trolls:
quote:
Trolls. Troll has been used to translate the Sindarin Torog. In their beginning far back in the twilight of the Elder Days, these were creatures of dull and lumpish nature and had no more language than beasts. But Sauron had made use of them, teaching them what little they could learn, and increasing their wits with wickedness. Trolls therefore took such language as they could master from the Orcs; and in the Westlands the Stone-trolls spoke a debased form of the Common Speech.
But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in southern Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech. That Sauron bred them none doubted, though from what stock was not known. Some held that they were not Trolls but giant Orcs; but the Olog-hai were in fashion of body and mind quite unlike even the largest of Orc-kind, whom they far surpassed in size and power. Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them. They spoke little, and the only tongue that they knew was the Black Speech of Barad-dûr.

The Olog-hai were the "hill-trolls out of Gorgoroth" mentioned at the Black Gate when Sauron sprung his trap. They were simply "taller and broader than men," in contrast to the other types which were as tall as Ents.

Stone-trolls, cave-trolls and mountain-trolls, in contrast, would be unable to endure the sun. Mountain-trolls were the type that wielded Grond; this was shortly before sunrise, and they're never mentioned again in the Battle of the Pelennor fields, inevitably for this reason.
As for cave-trolls, Moria was neither southern Mirkwood nor the mountain borders of Mordor, so there was no reason to suggest that they were Olog-hai. Rather, the fact that they were cave trolls would indicate that they couldn't endure the sunlight.

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