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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » Del Toro to direct The Hobbit? (Page 2)
Author Topic: Del Toro to direct The Hobbit?
The Dread Pirate Roberts
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He's WiKi. He felt The Hobbit was condescending when he read it at 5 years old, remember? Who among us is as grown up as that? Not you, not me, not even Stewie Griffin.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you ever grow up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What brought that on?

Gee, I wonder....

quote:
I'll be happy if we can continue this conversation in such a grown-up manner )

I knew that some people confuse a clear conscience with a short memory, but I just never knew a conscience THAT short.


quote:
He's WiKi. He felt The Hobbit was condescending when he read it at 5 years old, remember? Who among us is as grown up as that? Not you, not me, not even Stewie Griffin.
Well you ARE big and stupid by your own admission.

[ 01-31-2008, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Nahar
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Is this guy serious? []

I find myself becoming biased in a sense that I do not heed WiKi's comments on anything now... []


Although who would listen to a servant of Sauron who was so stuck up he fought even the Dúnedain?


Perhaps the Hill-men... []

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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(heeds the fool no more than a worm in the mud... and will watch that escape him like oxygen...
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Madomir
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quote:
I find myself becoming biased in a sense that I do not heed WiKi's comments on anything now...
You're not alone. It's unfortunate too because the kid can be rather insightful at times, but his presentation sucks so bad that many discount him out of hand. A touch of humility and perhaps a bit less residual anger at those who tormented him during those awkward teenage years would serve him well.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
It's unfortunate too because the kid can be rather insightful at times,
Consider an I.Q. test.

[ 02-01-2008, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Maia Olorin
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Consider Haloperidol.

[ 02-01-2008, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Maia Olorin ]

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Madomir
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quote:
Consider an I.Q. test.
Right... because obviously anyone with an IQ over 90 can tell that ALL your utterings are insightful. [] I suppose if you were any less predictable you wouldn't be our little Stewie. Oh, and thanks for proving my point about the humility thing []
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
Right... because obviously anyone with an IQ over 90 can tell that ALL your utterings are insightful.
90? Please, I'm a fan of Tolkien not Peter Jackson.

[ 02-01-2008, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Archer
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Good gawd, here we go again. . . [] It's going to go back and forth ad infinitum too, weee.

The fact is Neytari is anything but immature, and Roberts is anything but stupid--nope, not even pettily trying to use their words against them doesn't convince me, WiKi. Those comments were just uncalled for. On the other hand, intelligent 5-year-olds (yes they do exist) can dislike the idea that humans are referred to as "big and stupid," it's not like it's a complete improbability you know, and if they later want to describe what they felt as "condescending," then don't let's get all uppity in arms about it ourselves, and act as if we know someone's experience better than they do.

That being said, The first time I read The Hobbit, I loved the "big and stupid" part. Other than the fact that the tone just made me laugh, I really liked believing that outside my little plain world, there might be things so lithe and illusive, that we ourselves might seem big and stupid by comparison. Go figure; that just struck me as cool. []

quote:
I just think the general public views LotR as The Film Version, which would make a new one harder to get made...
I think the general public isn't even aware that LotR is first and foremost a book, and hence aware that there can be a different version than what's out there. [] But if you present them with something intelligent and well-made, especially if its true to Tolkien's intent (which would make it vastly different from PJ's schlock) the audiences will be there, I think.

[ 02-01-2008, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Archer ]

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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That's been my contention all along, i.e. a faithful and cognizant film-version (which PJ's was neither) would compare to PJ's storyline, like PJ's movie compared to Bakshi's animation.

quote:
The fact is Neytari is anything but immature,
and Roberts is anything but stupid--nope, not even pettily trying to use their words against them doesn't convince me, WiKi.

That's out of context:
quote:
I loved the "big and stupid" part.
Pretty ironic! []

[ 02-01-2008, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Archer
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What's ironic? (that you haven't taken out of context)
Never mind, I'm sure you can splice together some more text to get an answer you like. []
Meantime, the rest of us can just move along quietly.

In regards to this quote that someone linked: "Let's face it - Del Toro couldn't even finish reading the LOTRs. Too dense. Too deep. He has admitted this himself and has been quoted!" I'm not so sure what's worse--never being able to finish LotR because one admits its too deep for him, or finishing it, but being just as clueless, then telling the story all wrong. Tough one.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
What's ironic?
[]

quote:
Never mind, I'm sure you can splice together some more text to get an answer you like.
Yes, you didn't get it, so I MUST be doctoring quotes.

[]

Like so:

Me:
quote:
Well you ARE big and stupid by your own admission.

You:
quote:
Roberts is anything but stupid
...
I loved the "big and stupid" part.

Once again, I have to explain it three times... tough crowd!

quote:
In regards to this quote that someone linked: "Let's face it - Del Toro couldn't even finish reading the LOTRs. Too dense. Too deep. He has admitted this himself and has been quoted!" I'm not so sure what's worse--never being able to finish LotR because one admits its too deep for him, or finishing it, but being just as clueless, then telling the story all wrong. Tough one.
I think humility is the deciding factor, in that he'll at least perchance know and be careful what he's messing with-- compared to "Rugrats in New Zealand."
However not that it's only the lesser of two evils, but anything beats what a pretentious sitcom complete with cheesy one-liners.

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Roll of Honor Adulithien
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quote:
Neytari: Improbable. I'd be very surprised if A: Someone remade it to begin with, seeing how the originals are instant classics and B: They could actually surpass what has been created already. I wouldn't mind seeing someone try, though. The more interpretations, the better.
So let's talk about the part that I italicized. People said this about Star Wars when it came out, too. It was pretty high-tech, once-- a crowning achievement of special effects. Which looks rather cheesy nowadays. I suspect that visually surpassing PJ's films could be handled easily within the next ten years. Maybe even five, at the rate that technology (particularly media technology) is moving. Even in terms of non-SFX eye candy, it's not like PJ has a monopoly on vision.

If you mean something that could surpass it in storyline, well, maybe someone could further explore the subtleties of the original work rather than tweaking things to make it accessible to the widest audience possible. Or go the other route and make something even more base that ends up even more wildly popular as a result. (Though that's not very likely in my opinion... we are living on the Long Tail, after all.)

Humans are good at surpassing benchmarks, breaking records, etc. Regardless of any personal opinion of PJ or his interpretation, I expect that "surpassing" his work would be the easiest part of remaking the movie.

[ 02-02-2008, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: Adulithien ]

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Please, PJ's SFX aren't even good for today's standards; WETA is little short of Sid & Marty Kraft compared to PIXAR, Dreamworks and other-- likewise the Star Wars DVD's have been digitally re-mastered to easily cover up any problems with the original SFX: ain't gonna happen with PJ's film's, which were pure flashes in the pan-- on Tolkien's coattails.
Until someone gets it right, Obi-wan will trump Gandalf the Gay 8 ways to the Sunday matinee.

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Archer
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quote:
Yes, you didn't get it,
I'm afraid there's nothing to get, no matter what the voices in your head tell you. []

Okay, I guess I have to explain it to you then. See, regardless what your superior home schooling taught you, or how cleverly you believe it fits, "Who among us is as grown up as that?" is not a very good lead in to "Well you ARE big and stupid by your own admission," as the the former comment is about maturity (and was made in sarcasm) and the latter is about being oafish and dense. Those concepts aren't even related, and your "snappy" comeback to try to weasel in an insult only make you look, well, never mind.

As for all the other handy-dandy splicing and dicing you've done (showcases your lack of logic as well) you obviously don't understand the subtleties of implication, even when its your own, nor can you seem to differentiate it between casual comments on style. It's all the same to you I guess; I dare say that's bordering on the Jacksonian. Well knock yourself out, and try not to cut yourself with the scissors, junior. My advice is you ring up Mummy and tell her you need another round of home schooling--fast. [] []

Bwahahah! Funny. . .

Okay I'm over it. Now. . .

quote:
I expect that "surpassing" his work would be the easiest part of remaking the movie.

True, and there might be a kid out there right now who's thinking on improving on the film and may go at it someday, though I worry the ambition will be driven by the film and not the book. I keep thinking about the remake of the classic 1960 The Time Machine film. (The book has been remade like a gazillion times.) In 2002, The Time Machine was done once more, but as a remake of the film, not the book, which was just strange.

Stranger yet, it was directed by H.G. Wells's grandson Simon--you'd think that'd count for something--who tried to follow the idea of modernizing it for the era, like in the 1960 film (but couldn't pull it off). That classic film made the central problem not the division of the classes which was Wells's concern in 1895, but the fear of nuclear war (and war in general), which was the big concern in 1960. In manages to work well enough, but the whole environmental thing with the 2002 film was bloody awful. My point is that the remake was driven by the film, not the book, and seeing how the film has manged to replace the subtler images of the book for many, it makes me a bit worried.

quote:
Please, PJ's SFX aren't even good for today's standards
But people think they are, unfortunately.

[ 02-02-2008, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Archer ]

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Madomir
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quote:
Good gawd, here we go again. . . It's going to go back and forth ad infinitum too, weee.
Shall I file this under self fulfilling prophecy? []
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Archer
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At least I offer something to the topic in the process and try to move it forward. Try it yourself sometime.

Edit: (less someone accuse me of breaking netiquette by making multiple posts) Just came across some information about the sequence of Hobbit directors in the last few months. From what I can tell, Raimi was originally the first choice for directing The Hobbit when Jackson and New Line were all in a huff (and Peter Weir was only a backup for Raimi, dang). Still, what happened to Raimi? Did those plans dissolve when Jackson and New Line kissed and made up, and did Jackson have anything to do with del Toro coming on board? (And is there any chance it can change again? [] ) Curious what happened, as things seemed to change suddenly.

[ 02-02-2008, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Archer ]

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
Did those plans dissolve when Jackson and New Line kissed and made up,
Kissed and PAID up, you mean; it's all about pimps putting butts in seats, if you'll pardon the bluntness.

quote:
I'm afraid there's nothing to get, no matter what the voices in your head tell you.
It's called "context."

quote:
Okay, I guess I have to explain it to you then. See, regardless what your superior home schooling taught you, or how cleverly you believe it fits, "Who among us is as grown up as that?" is not a very good lead in to "Well you ARE big and stupid by your own admission,"
And guess what: it WASN'T! (Thus the word "context..." start from the beginning and try to follow it, rather than responing to isolated posts.)

quote:
As for all the other handy-dandy splicing and dicing you've done (showcases your lack of logic as well) you obviously don't understand the subtleties of implication, even when its your own, nor can you seem to differentiate it between casual comments on style.
See above... but I forgive you.


quote:
I keep thinking about the remake of the classic 1960 The Time Machine film. (The book has been remade like a gazillion times.) In 2002, The Time Machine was done once more, but as a remake of the film, not the book, which was just strange.
The resemblence is obvious- the "explosion" of the time-machine at the end, was exactly the same as Sauron's eyeball (i.e. magical explosion that only kills the bad guys-- should be called "Deus Ex Time-machina."

quote:
Stranger yet, it was directed by H.G. Wells's grandson Simon--you'd think that'd count for something--who tried to follow the idea of modernizing it for the era, like in the 1960 film (but couldn't pull it off). That classic film made the central problem not the division of the classes which was Wells's concern in 1895, but the fear of nuclear war (and war in general), which was the big concern in 1960. In manages to work well enough, but the whole environmental thing with the 2002 film was bloody awful. My point is that the remake was driven by the film, not the book, and seeing how the film has manged to replace the subtler images of the book for many, it makes me a bit worried.

I had the same thoughts: I concluded that he was trying to make some obscure metaphor about symbolism and destiny: i.e. the time-traveller kept trying to go back and save his fiance, but she just kept getting killed some other way (since that was what drove him to build the time-machine in the first place, i.e. a high-tech sci-fi geek-version of the old "Final Destination" plot-line that "you can't cheat the reaper."

And at the end the "movie-boss" blue ape-thing tells him that it's impossible to change what drove you to time-travel in the first place-- obviously a pompous symbolism for the old "no growth without sacrifice, can't have your cake and eat it too," blah blah blah-- basically preaching the old metaphor that "there's no such thing as a cosmic free lunch."
Naturally, nobody got it-- even the singing holographic librarian.

[ 02-02-2008, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Archer
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quote:
See above... but I forgive you.
[]
quote:
And at the end the "movie-boss" blue ape-thing
[] [] even more

Like the movie-boss giant eyeball Sauron on reaching the final movie level.

In fact, The Time Machine remake made a lot of the same kind of blunders as LotR, was overly sensationalized in the same manner--like the huge, monstrous, lemur-from-hell morlocks, which (in the text) were small, creepy, ape-like things that crawled out in the dark and tried to gnaw you with their little teeth--way creepier and disturbing than the film's cg "game mobs."

Then there's the injected romance, the dangling from your fingers cliff-hangers, and the overt PC tweaking--smells familiar.

There was a Final Destination-ish thing trying to manifest itself in the film, I had mercifully forgotten about it. The problem was there were a jumble of things trying to go on and none of them done very well, and the PC stuff, like the "Native-American" Eloi was just painfully dumb. The only part that was done well (if I'm remembering correctly) was the passage of the landscape through time, which I thought captured Wells, well, well.

quote:
I saw trees growing and changing like puffs of vapour, now brown, now green; they grew, spread, shivered, and passed away. I saw huge buildings rise up faint and fair, and pass like dreams. The whole surface of the earth seemed changed--melting and flowing under my eyes.
. . .but like it does for the Time Traveller on his journey, the film moment passes quickly, and its likes aren't seen again. []
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Talan
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Who's up for a remake of Krull?
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
In fact, The Time Machine remake made a lot of the same kind of blunders as LotR, was overly sensationalized in the same manner--like the huge, monstrous, lemur-from-hell morlocks, which (in the text) were small, creepy, ape-like things that crawled out in the dark and tried to gnaw you with their little teeth--way creepier and disturbing than the film's cg "game mobs."
Just like the Uruk-hai-- in fact they bore a strong resemblance as well:

 -  -

In the books, BOTH were creepy little ape-like things who were fairly useless in combat; even a hobbit could take an orc if he tried, just like an Eloi could take a Morlock.

However naturally, both producers felt their judgment so superior to the authors' as to "McSupersize" the critters, in order to make them appear "scarier" and more threatening... but only ended up making them both sillier and more bizarre.

quote:
Then there's the injected romance, the dangling from your fingers cliff-hangers, and the overt PC tweaking--smells familiar.

Yes-- smells like nacho's; both were basic movie stock-staples of cheese and corn.

quote:
There was a Final Destination-ish thing trying to manifest itself in the film, I had mercifully forgotten about it.

Because it was obscured by pretense; you have to be a real sci-fi geek to even notice the reference.

quote:
The problem was there were a jumble of things trying to go on and none of them done very well, and the PC stuff, like the "Native-American" Eloi was just painfully dumb.

More like ANGLO-American-- and annoying tendency of many Hollywood films to color all culture with even MORE annoying whitebread accents and corny Amer-annerisms; Disney's gotten it down to a science.

quote:
The only part that was done well (if I'm remembering correctly) was the passage of the landscape through time, which I thought captured Wells, well, well.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw trees growing and changing like puffs of vapour, now brown, now green; they grew, spread, shivered, and passed away. I saw huge buildings rise up faint and fair, and pass like dreams. The whole surface of the earth seemed changed--melting and flowing under my eyes.
----------

. . .but like it does for the Time Traveller on his journey, the film moment passes quickly, and its likes aren't seen again.

I don't recall the sun forming a "band of light" acros the sky that shifted during the year-- the most obvious thing, but which escaped the simple mind of a Hollywood producer.

Which simply goes to show, that a broken watch isn't always right twice a day... or even once.

[ 02-03-2008, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Gondoran74
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Quote Neytari:
"Let me know when the remakes of "Gone with the Wind," "The Great Escape," "Casablanca," "Ben Hur," "Star Wars," and "Pan's Labyrinth" (ok, maybe a bit too soon to call that one a classic) are coming out [] At this point I don't".
I really do not think PJ's LOTR compares with the first five (I have not seen "Pan's Labyrinth"). There is definitely room for better character development with Frodo, Faramir, Aragorn....heck almost every role with the exception of Harry the Moth who turned out to be the true savior of middle earth.
Audiences love tales of courage, redemption, sacrifice et al if done correctly. What you have with PJ's version is politically correct characters appealing to the most common denominator audience going through the motions. I did not develop any respect, love, admiration for any of the characters that I had with the books.
On another note one of my guilty pleasures is "Army of Darkness"(which now I can not remember much about except for the chainsaw). So I was happy with Raimi as director but with PJ in as producer I am sure we will get more of the same.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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My point was that those were films which made books famous, not movies made from famous books.

Jackass's LotR, like Botchki's, was an attempt which completely ruined the book-- and so there's plenty of room to SAVE it; since he did for Tolkien ,what Kevin Costner did for Robin Hood.

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Archer
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quote:
I don't recall the sun forming a "band of light" across the sky that shifted during the year-- the most obvious thing, but which escaped the simple mind of a Hollywood producer.
There wasn't any such thing, of course, and I wasn't referring to the sky bit, with its bright band of the sun, and lesser band of the moon--those key elements were noticeably absent, as was the flickering effect of day and night which quickly moved to a "uniform gray" as day and night melded into one. I was actually only commenting on the movement of the land formations through time, the "melting and flowing" of it, which is why I quoted that small passage above specifically.

The fx crew missed it big otherwise; even the 1960 classic film made an attempt to convey the band of the sun, and the flickering of day/night. The effects seem pretty crude by today's standards, but I think they won an academy award in their day. And other than some of those cheesy fight scenes with the Morlocks, with the Time Traveller punching them out ala Captain Kirk, and the nauseous love scenes he has with Weena whom he actually sees "just like a little child" in the book, the film is pretty good overall.

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