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Minas Tirith Forums » New Line Cinema's Hobbit » PJ Banned From The Hobbit ! (Page 6)
Author Topic: PJ Banned From The Hobbit !
The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
However, it's neither particularly advantageous to female characterization, nor is it particularly original--plain and simple.

It's not advantageous since it grants virtue mainly for something that has nothing whatsoever to do with virtue, and it suggests that without physical beauty, i.e., genetics, which are a fairly random thing from person to person, there is no real virtue. Conversely, men in Tolkien's world are upheld for their actual deeds and character--things they have control over.

I don't see the connection between beauty and virtue for any of the female characters; while they are beautiful, this is entirely separate from their virtue-- which is in wisdom and making hard choices: Galadriel rejects the Ring and thus destroys her people-- in addition to her chastizing of Celeborn in defense of Gimli; likewise, Arwen chooses morality to save Men, despite thinking them wicked fools (for which she likewise repents at the end); and Éowyn chooses life and true love over title and reknown etc. Meanwhile Rosie waits faithfully for Sam, even though Sam says he's moving away permanantly, and others say he's dead.

Perhaps you feel like the story is endlessly harping about how "beautiful" the women are (while the Men are noted for character), and there's a point to that-- but actually I think this misses the overall point that Arwen and Galadriel, as Elves are mythically, impossibly beautiful beyond mortal reckoning; as such, the departure of the Elves represents such ideals passing from the world with the modern age, along with much that is considered wondrously beautiful in preference of the practical.

quote:
A good way to get the sword knocked right out of your hand, and probably get a fracture to boot. And not only that, but its the sissy-ish way she holds it up beside her, like she's holding up a compact to powder her nose or something; there is no way in the world there would be any force behind that swing. If I was the Nazgûl, I would just be embarrassed for her.

Well to be fair, it was supposed to be during an "I dare ya to come into the river" tactic -- if I was defending her in the argument, I'd say that she was "playing dumb" by holding the sword all wrong on purpose to make the enemy over-confident, and that's why the Nazgûl didn't suspect a trap (instead of being just plain stupid themselves).

However I'm not defending her, since she wasn't playing dumb-- she's the genuine article! []

More importantly though, such obvious acts of "pseudo-expertise" is inevitable of some primadonna pseudo-expert trying to steal a scene by showing off "skill" they don't have (she says she speaks Elvish too, remember); I think you can always spot a hammy show-off poseur most easily during a fight-scene, since that's where ego's tend to wax incredible.

quote:
Now that statement was completely unnecessary, and just as much untrue, if by "insecure PC-feminists" you mean those who feel trite female characterizations aren't necessary because they would rather "compete" with men--as if they need some kind of permission or something! I'm guessing you do mean this, correct me if I'm wrong, since you prefaced the statement with "in contrast" to pedestal idealization (?), which is the thing I claimed I'm seldom impressed by.

No, I'm saying that PC feminists like Philippa are hypocrites about it via double-standards. Case in point: in the movie, first Arwen upstages all the male characters; and then next suddenly she's The Lady of the Lake (i.e. giving the King his holy sword) and Snow White (i.e. she's poisoned by the enemy and will die unless "Prince Charmin" saves her). That's a double-standard since she upstages the men in all ways, physical and moral.

As for the "pedestal" thing, this goes to classic chivalry, which embodies sacrifice to duty by both genders via gender-roles, vs. individual self-indulgence which leads to ruin. Recent anti-hero themes, however, portray such ideals with contempt, via bitter women stepping on weak men-- typically displaying such contempt via sarcasm (e.g. "A Ranger caught off his guard?"

Even Éowyn's statement of defiance to the Witch-king of "No living man am I!" becomes a taunt which indicates that the Witch-king "couldn't be killed by any man" simply because men weren't worthy enough to be able to do it-- unlike women).

This represents a shallow, paranoid ignorance of classic values, construing gender-roles as some sort of "male dominance and oppression" rather than a simple matter of respective duty by either gender... and ends up becoming the crown jewel of double-standards.

This failure represents the overall ignorance and shallowness of the writers via their failure to appreciate not only context but nobility, and so PJ panders to the "me generation," which scoffs at duty of any sort while demanding entitlement to liberty and privilege.

For example, why does Frodo take the Ring to Mordor? In the story it's out of sacrifice to duty-- since everything will be lost if he doesn't, even though he stands personally to lose everything and more in the process of saving all others; meanwhile in the movie it's just to shut up the Dwarves from screaming over it.

[ 04-23-2007, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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Apparently, McKellan would like to play Gandalf in the Hobbit, even without PJ.
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Anoren Anarinwa
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quote:
From the LA Times: - Eager to move ahead with "The Hobbit," New Line has quietly been trying to mend fences with "Rings" filmmaker Peter Jackson, who has sued the company over his share of profits from the first "Rings" films. When asked if it was true that company insiders had been in talks with Jackson's reps, Shaye replied, "Yes, that's a fair statement. Notwithstanding our personal quarrels, I really respect and admire Peter and would love for him to be creatively involved in some way in 'The Hobbit.' -
I got that from IMDB.

Also - Kiss and Make Up?

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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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The two pieces of information in the last two posts are a great shame.
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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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In opposite land.
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Eldarion
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Part of me wants to see a very accurate story, and part of me wants to see Peter Jackson in the special features.
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Snöwdog
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Well, if it happens with PJ, I wont be paying to see it. If it happens with someone else, I might, or not.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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I wouldn't pay to see PJ in the starring role of a snuff film.
(I might download it however [] )

quote:
Part of me wants to see a very accurate story, and part of me wants to see Peter Jackson in the special features.
Yes, I can't wait to hear Philippa arrogantly blather how Smaug represented industry (or whatever), and how Legolas's killing him represented anything.

(What's that? Legolas didn't kill Smaug? That's what YOU think!)

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Snöwdog
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I thought it was Arwen who did that...
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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They're interchangeable.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I can only imagine how bad it would suck with PJ in control.

Of cour$e the $tudio i$ only $eeing one thing.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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The combined worldwide box office gross for the five Harry Potter films to date is in excess of $4.47 billion-- about double LotR's; by the time "Hallows" finishes, that figure should be triple LotR.

Meanwhile HP is a pretty shabby story in comparison to LotR.

If the studio wants $$$, they should look beyond the troll; if you can't make more money with a better story, then the producer is obviously the weakest link.

[ 10-19-2007, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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Where can one find data about a film's revenue from video rentals and sales?
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I thought boxofficemojo would have that info, too, but it seems not easy to find. . .

[ 10-23-2007, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: The Dread Pirate Roberts ]

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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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Wasn't that the big controversy? New Line refusing to tell anyone how much the films actually made?

[ 10-23-2007, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Neytari Took-Baggins ]

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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It's not really a secret; however if they can't turn the novel of the century into something that even made half as much as a series of kids' books, then something's wrong.
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Roll of Honor Wandering Tuor
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I seriously doubt that the producers of The Hobbit would view the $3 billion box office take of the LotR trilogy as an argument against using the same team. Plenty of great novels have been made into box office busts.
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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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Harry Potter made a lot because
1: It appeals to a wider age range than LotR. It just does.
2: It is very popular RIGHT NOW. It didn't have to grow in popularity. If LotR was released in today's climate it would make a lot more. Except the LotR films were needed to create the climate in the first place, so *shrugs*
3: Being the only kid movie out at the time (aside from Monster's Inc, which had been in theatres for a few weeks), it had little competition in the kiddie film department.

Movies kids can see regularly make more than they should.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
seriously doubt that the producers of The Hobbit would view the $3 billion box office take of the LotR trilogy as an argument against using the same team. Plenty of great novels have been made into box office busts.
Depends on who makes them; I chalk it up to mediocrity. PJ is all about special effects (with the emphasis on "special") while shredding the story of its beauty, dignity and soul. If you want to make a great film out of a great book, hire someone who's already done it-- not someone who always wanted to TRY.

quote:
1: It appeals to a wider age range than LotR. It just does.

The book, perhaps; that doesn't have to be the case for the movie.

The problem with PJ's Lotr, is that he TRIED to appeal to a wider age-range by dumbing it down and hamming it up-- while ironically Harry Potter did the opposite.
And for PJ it backfired, naturally, since as you mentioned, it WASN'T a kid's story.

quote:
Harry Potter made a lot because
2: It is very popular RIGHT NOW. It didn't have to grow in popularity. If LotR was released in today's climate it would make a lot more. Except the LotR films were needed to create the climate in the first place, so *shrugs*

So you just contradicted yourself. If a film was well-made in the first place, it would earn its own popularity; I knew when the first HP and LotR film came out, that the war was over between them: HP won hands-down, and PJ got his arse handed to him. I don't think HP was more popular than LotR, it just didn't sell as many copies lately because it's not as easy to read; however PJ made the graniose blunder of dumbing it down so "people could understand it," believing in his dementia (as well as Fran's, the queen of narcissistic pseudo-intellect and egocentrism) that, given his shallow and twisted understanding of the story, he had anywhere further down to dumb it.

As such, the fact that PJ tried to make LotR into a pandering, condescending kid's movie was the worst thing he could have done; few kids are so stupid, as to like movies that treat them like they are stupid.

"Lookee kids, swordfights, wizards and elephants!"
"Sorry, Mister, but Prof. Dumbledore is much wiser and more interesting than that shabby old queen who bumps his head and quotes Toucan Sam; also Harry is much a braver and better-developed character than that weird kid Frodo who's just a crybaby who makes funny faces-- and Harry has far more personal growth as a result.
And oh yeah, Dobby's way cooler than your Gollum, and Aragog's way better than your Shelob. Ron Weasley's even better than Sam Gamgee-- and the trolls are better, even. You're so mediocre and pathetic that you look like you ripped off of Harry, even though it's actually the other way around."

"Um....uhh.... er.... duhhh... yeah, but does Voldemort have a GIANT RED EYEBALL?"

"Puh-LEEZE mister, why don't you just run a cue to hiss the villain? You're so shallow and obvious that you'd probably make Professor Snape the bad guy in film 1."

"And a belching dwarf! Hee hee, look, look at the funny, silly hairy stupid dwarf! Isn't he funny?
And look, a Jedi Elf! 'Use the Force, Leg!'
Hey you stupid kids, where are you going?
And why won't they let me direct "The Hobbit?"

[ 10-24-2007, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Madomir
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quote:
I seriously doubt that the producers of The Hobbit would view the $3 billion box office take of the LotR trilogy as an argument against using the same team. Plenty of great novels have been made into box office busts.
That's a pretty compelling reason for bringing back PJ et al, given that making a boatload of cash is the driving force behind making the movie. If making a great and accurate adaptation were the desired end game result, we may see a different crew. But since it isn't, the odds are NL & PJ will kiss and make up and we'll get a Hobbit-esque blockbuster.
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Wetwang
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quote:
But since it isn't, the odds are NL & PJ will kiss and make up and we'll get a Hobbit-esque blockbuster.
Just as long as he includes elves singing silly little ditties and giggling like silly little schoolgirls then it'll be a-ok by me []
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Again, LotR only earning 1/3 of HP is a pretty good reason NOT to hire PJ.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Did you hear PJ's Elves singing in LotR? Pure crap. No joy at all. How he could possibly transform those Elves into the Hobbit's Elves is beyond my suspension of disbelief threshold.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Well I say Enya FACE! []
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Madomir
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Here's to hoping PJ DOES get to do the Hobbit!! Think of how cool it'll be when Dain leads the charge of the McDwarf army in the 'Battle of Five Armies'. It'll be like Mel leading those hairy Scots across the battlefield to wipe out the Brits in Braveheart... except in miniature. []
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