Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
 
Minas Tirith Forums » Languages of Arda » How do you like my Quenya translations?
Author Topic: How do you like my Quenya translations?
Peter_20
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 6368
posted      Profile for Peter_20   Email Peter_20   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
So I've noticed that there are lots of Sindarin names in Tolkien's works, but there aren't a lot of Quenya names.
Therefore I've taken as a kind of hobby to study the relations between these languages and try finding out what the Sindarin names would've become in Quenya.

Here's a list on some Sindarin names, with my personal translations written in bold letters:

Maeglin - Maicalinta
Erchamion - Erucamba
Legolas - Laiqualassë
Celebrían - Teleprinta
Aragorn - Aracarno
Thangorodrim - Sangartarimbë
Orodruin - Artarúnya
Aeglos - Aicalossë

Please share your opinions! []

[ 09-04-2007, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Peter_20 ]

From: Sweden | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
Celebrían -- *Telperianna
Legolas (G-e Laegolas) -- *Laicolassie
Maeglin -- *Maicalin (Quenyarization)

Here's a few of my ideas anyway, *possibilities I had already thought about (not yet considering these others).

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tyrhael
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5522
posted      Profile for Tyrhael   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Laiqualassë looks good, being straight from Tolkien, but you have to realize that he changed _laiqua_ to _laica_ later on, or else the S. cognate would be *_laeb_. So I'd make Laicalassë.

Aragorn and Erchamion were made into Quenya as Arakorno and Ercambo by JRRT. Regarding Celebrían, I might make Tyelperíanna from *kyelepe and *rîg-anna ... I'm not sure where -rinta comes from. Though you could have Telpe- for a more Telerin flavor. Telep- and Tyelep- are okay as well, but I'm not sure whether -pr- would stand (would it undergo metathesis to -rp-?). Regarding Thangorodrim and Orodruin, I think you have to realize that the elements you translate as -arta- are in fact related to ÓROT for 'mountain', not from something like from primitive *arâta, etc.

Edited regarding 'Legolas'

[ 08-31-2007, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Tyrhael ]

From: northern CT | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
*Laicalasse 'greenleaf' but Laegolas is (technically) 'greenleaves', which is why I went with *Laicolassie (using -olassie from Leters).

IIRC the Telerin form telpe was found in Quenya, thus my choice there.

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tyrhael
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5522
posted      Profile for Tyrhael   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Ahhhhh, okay. I was wondering where -o- and -ie came from, analyzing it as _laica_ + -o + _lasse_ + -ie, which made no sense at all to me, but your explanation of _olassie_ clarifies everything. []
From: northern CT | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ederchil
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 6454
posted      Profile for Ederchil   Email Ederchil   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Tyrhael, I'm curious where you found Arakorno. Is that from PE17, "generous" being somehow related to "ring-giving" lords of Anglo-saxon times?
From: Groningen, the Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
In a text concerning vanimelda (without getting into that here)...

quote:
'... For this formation cf. laicalasse; green-leaf = green as leaves. laic-olasse, green foliage, Laegolas.'

[at another occurance of Legolas]

'S. Legolas
green must be laiká NOT laiqua
Legolas: laeg, green + go-las 'foliage' Q walass(s), olassie'


From 'Words, Phrases and Passages...' PE17

My copy arrived!
Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tyrhael
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 5522
posted      Profile for Tyrhael   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Ederchil, "Arakorno" is from PE17, yes. Though my copy has not yet arrived, Thorsten Renk has taken all the Quenya phrases included within it and added them to his page here. One of those phrases includes 'Arakorno' as Q. for Aragorn.
From: northern CT | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Is that from PE17, "generous" being somehow related to "ring-giving" lords of Anglo-saxon times?
PE17 notes a root ÑGOR- dread.

quote:
But ára-ngorn would probably be dissimilated anyway by denasalization of ng > g.

'gorn (-ngorn-) is from ÑGOR- 'dread' used in sense of reverence, majesty (...) Ara(n)gorn = 'revered king'...

There's more to that note; and I'll add here that I did not quote all references to Legolas or Aragorn in PE17... just a couple examples rather.

[ 09-17-2007, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Galin ]

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ederchil
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 6454
posted      Profile for Ederchil   Email Ederchil   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
But if the root is ÑGOR, shouldn't Q be Arañorno? Okay, the context (see Tyrhael's link) obviously means it's "written" by Tolkien (rather than an actual copy of a long lost scroll), and the name could be a layman's Quenyarization.

Wouldn't it have been a lot cooler if Tolkien used mannish names for Éomer and Gimli? Log-something and ?Zorî/Zimrî or something the like.

From: Groningen, the Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
There is another text, already mentioned in The History of Middle-Earth which has Aragorn seemingly meaning 'Kingly Valour'.

But of note is a very late letter from 1972

quote:
'Aragorn etc. This cannot contain a 'tree' word (see note)*. 'Tree-king' would have no special fitness for him, and it was already used by an ancestor. The names in the line of Arthedain are peculiar in several ways; and several, though Sindarin in form, are not readily interpretable. But it would need more historical records and linguistic records of S. than exist (sc. than I have found time or need to invent!) to explain them. The system by which all the names from Melvegil onwards are trisyllabic, and have only one 'significant' element** (ara being used where the final element was of one syllable; but ar in other cases. The ara is prob. derived from cases where aran 'king' lost its n phonetically (as Arathorn), ara- then being used in other cases.'

(** note: If indeed all were so; some may have been early coinages in the general style; or alterations of old names arising domestically. As in our Robert > Robin, Dobbin, Hob, Bob etc)' JRRT letters

Later in the letter Tolkien explains that Arathorn contains an abbreviated form of thorono 'eagle' seen in Thoron-dor, Thorongil.

In PE 17: 'In Arathorn we have thorn 'steadfast', Q. thorna, sorna (root THOR). Aran-thorn 'steadfast king' Arathorn. Aragorn probably had ara- (for ar-) after other such names in which ara- was a phonetic reduction of aran. But ára-ngorn would probably be dissimilated...' (and continues as in my previous post).

There's another note in PE17 (I write 'indented' where the text actually is indented)...

quote:
'What is gorn in Aragorn, Celegorn. kurna... Aragorn is [?simply modeled (on) ? ending] of Arathorn, Celegorn etc... for [?pure] Argorn.
[indented] -orna tall, cf. orne, tree. Celegorn = swift-tall
[indented] aran-thorn, steadfast king. STOR, THOR > Arathorn

And the editor's note that follows this (also with a bit of editing by me where (...) appears)

quote:
['Finicunda >> (...) Findor >> Finion; kor >> kurna-. The note on -orna was added in the space above; the note on aran-thorn in the left margin. These notes are on a rejected page in NN ['Notes on Names'] which also contains notes on Idril (see above) and Felagund (see III 363). They probably anticipate the longer note on Fingon given above, which seems to recapitulate the same ideas about Arathorn and Celegorn in more detail' (...)]
Back to the PE17 text in question on Aragorn, which appears in a note on Fingon, which begins:

quote:
Fingon, a poor name, needs revision? Finion? Fingorn?
[indented] Incidentally note that -gorn, orna &c. in names is of various origin.

Then, after some text I edit here, continues...

quote:
[indented] gorn (-ngorn-) is from ÑGOR- 'dread' -- used in sense of reverence, majesty -- adjective *ñgorná, dreaded, revered, noun form *ñgormé, dread, reverence awe. So Ara(n)gorn = 'revered king'. Celegorn/ Celegorm could be thus for Celeg(n)gorn/m, but the name is not then clearly significant, as it should be (being an early name).
[indented] Fingorn as Phiniñgorná would roughly = 'revered Fin(we)'. Fingorn and Turugorn.

Followed by Editor's note:

quote:
[The final paragraph of this note was deleted and replaced by the phrase 'or Finikáno, Turukáno' apparently in connection with the following note]
Context is key of course, but anyway, if I received this late letter (above), in my opinion it suggests (at least) that Tolkien had no sure 'ultimate' idea about the full form of Aragorn, or hadn't worked one out yet to his satisfaction. If correct I could not be sure if he had forgotten what he had written earlier concerning the name, or had 'rejected' it. All I could say is that in 1972 his answer did not contain a specific explanation of the full name of Aragorn, and considering the rest of his explanation, he does not seem to have one 'ready'.

[ 09-18-2007, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Galin ]

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Languages of Arda » How do you like my Quenya translations?
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1