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Minas Tirith Forums » Languages of Arda » Translations (Page 10)
Author Topic: Translations
Thingol of Doriath
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A good answer can be found here. []

The user name and password are given. Let me know if you have any trouble and I will copy and paste.

From: Sverige! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Halion
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Thank you.

I had no problems logging in.

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Eruantalon
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Entwife(ves) in Sindarin or Quenyan?
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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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Guessing here:

Sindarin =Onodbiss (onodbessath?)

Quenya = *Ontevessi

From: Vinya-Tárilos | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Éomer
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I don't actually need translation help, just looking for opinions. Do both of these names look/sound good?

Andúmir (Quenya)
Annumir (Sindarin)

Both mean "Jewel of the West." Personally I think the Quenya one sounds better (big surprise [] ), but I just wanted to get some opinions on both names.

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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For a person, I like the Sindarin. For an object (sword or whatnot), I like the Quenya more.

Because Andú- is more like "uttermost west" or sunset/evening as opposed to (relative) west núme-.

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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True, but Númemir and Mirinúmë don't sound as good. []

Besides, andú- and annûn come from the same root word, so both have pretty much the same meaning.

[ 06-07-2005, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Éomer ]

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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I agree... I worked out Númemir and was like, [] Sounds like some cheesy 1970s cartoon superhero.

Numemir and the Cabbage of Doom! []

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Halion
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Silmahtar posted:
quote:
Andú- is more like “uttermost west” or sunset/evening as opposed to (relative) west núme-.
From The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien no. 347:
quote:
Andúril means Flame of the West (as a region) not of the Sunset.

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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That's right. And I never said Andúril means "Flame of the Sunset".

Have you ever asked yourself why there's núme- and andú-?

[ 06-07-2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Silmahtar ]

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Halion
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I am no linguist, but I posted the quote because I thought that it indicated that andú- cannot be used for ‘sunset’, only for the region.

Perhaps I am completely wrong, but it seems that it is núme- that could be used for both.

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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There is a word for "sunset": andúnë. And yes, you're right -- both andú- and núme- seem to be interchangeable. I thought there might be some rule attached to determine which is more appropriate.

Thinking out loud here, andú- seems to be used more to express "most West", depending on the reference. In Andúril's case, that being the Blessed Realm. For Númenor, there's Andustar and Andúnië, the westernmost region and city, respectively, to be found on the island.

For "sunset", saying andúnë rather than *númë perhaps indicates that it is that the sun sets in the westernmost place available in Arda. Does that make sense?

I wonder if Tolkien was inspired to keep the linguistic variation from English. There's "west" and "occident". While both aren't native English words (what is? [] ), both have the same root meaning, "go down", just like with NDU.

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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quote:
Or maybe *Dúmir 'West-jewel'
Why not Dúnamir or Dúnemir?
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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Bleh, I forgot to add the acute over the 'u' in Annúmir, and Annúminas was my whole basis for the name! []

And yeah, if you use dûn I'm pretty sure the correct name would be Dúmir -- adding another letter or syllable in-between the two words doesn't really make sense, I think. But then, I don't know Sindarin as much as I do Quenya, so... []

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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quote:
But then, I don't know Sindarin as much as I do Quenya, so...
Yes, and we aim to keep it that way... []
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.
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[]

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Roll of Honor Éomer
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Nah, Slimy prefers the language of the Calaquendi over that of the Moriquendi. But he has an interest in languages in general.

I quite like Sindarin, to be honest. I find its structure, sound, and consonant mutation thing interesting. But I like Quenya more.

It's harder trying to learn Sindarin than it is to learn Quenya, IMO.

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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Do you really find Sindarin harder, Éomer? Cause for me it's easier than Quenya.
Also, does anyone here have an Elvish (either Sindarin or Quenya) meaning for Lyra, the first part of my post name? I got it from a different author. It sounded musical (like Lyric [] ) so I thought it went well with Tinuviel. Plus my whole name together is untaken in so many e-places [] !

[ 06-11-2005, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: LyraLuthienTinuviel ]

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Roll of Honor Lassë
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Firstly, you should put spaces between "Lyra Luthien Tinuviel" - (see WGWs "How should I choose my display name?" in the Minas Tirith FAQ) -

Then,
As far as I know "lyra" is the name of an actual real world star constelation - If you look on the maps that add the elvish names to known star constellations you'll see that "lyra" isn't named.

If you're referring solely to the phonetic value of "lyra" then I am pretty sure that at least quenya doesn't have a word with that sound - I base that on the fact that quenya did not have a seperate vowel for "vowel y", but had a series of consonants-followed-by-y (I think Tolkien called it Tyelpetema) - that is the 5th tema in quenya tengwar - the tema that didn't get its own column (and is thus marked by two dots under the consonant) - "L" does indeed sometime take a "following y", but all the instances I could where Y is used it was then followed by a vowel. That just underlines that quenya doesn't consider "y" to be a real vowel, but rather to be some kind of added effect on a consonant - (like nasals, eg.)

Christ, always when I try to make these explanations I get really chaotic - the short explanation is: "lyra" doesn't exist in Quenya, since vowel-y doesn't exist, and the "y" in "lyra" is most definately a vowel...

Now will someone do the sindarin half? []

EDIT:
Oh and I forgot the most important part: WELCOME TO THE WHITE CITY, LYRA []

[ 06-13-2005, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Lassë ]

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Hidalgo
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Well, Luthien isn't a Quenya name either, so there.

As for Lyra, it reminds me of lyre .

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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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There is a Quenya equivalent of "lyra". It's Latin for lyre, which in Quenya is salma.

e: Lassë stop confusing the poor n00b... [] []

ee: crosspost w/ Hidalgo...

[ 06-13-2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Silmahtar ]

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Roll of Honor Lassë
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quote:
ee: crosspost w/ Hidalgo...
Did it take you 20+ minutes to post two lines of text without a single quote or image or anything? [] []
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Roll of Honor Silmahtar
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Leaf I usually hit reply then look up my info. []

But the time stamp system on MT makes absolutely no sense -- my post says "1:46 pm", but my edit says "12:50 pm" [] []

Maybe one is my local time, and the other is the mysterious "server time", which would be CST in the US. (Chicago).

Or MT has somehow allowed me to travel back in time? []

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
Maybe one is my local time, and the other is the mysterious "server time",
You're right about that.
I occasionally read MT without logging in, and the posting times confuse me then, especially my own posts. Then I log in, and the posting times change to what I consider normal.

The editing times stay the same, though.

E:
I posted that at 21:19 (GMT +2).
For most non-Europeans that will show up different.
The edit should be a few minutes later.

[ 06-13-2005, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Varnafindë ]

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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Thank you all. I'm not as confused as you might think, for I did study the Tengwar, and the Appendix of The Silmarillion showing some of the elements of the names Tolkien wrote. I wish I had more of his works to reference!
Would it be better to say Lyra is an English corruption of laurë, gold, or to just say it refers to a harp?
I would put the spaces in, but I understand changing the post name is generally frowned upon. I just got here last week; I don't want to create more chaos than I already have just by committing the more common newbie errors.

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