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Author Topic: Using Tengwar to Write English
Gwindor
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3021

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Hi, everyone. I have another question about using the tengwar for english, hoping some people here who have more experience than I can help.

I've been transliterating some of the english poems in Fellowship to the tengwar. Right now I'm working on that song Bilbo wrote with Aragorn in Rivendell on the night of the feast.

I'm wondering, though, whether the pronunciation of the word in english is more important than how it is spelled. For example, the word 'knees' ("where twilight lies upon the knees of Valinor and Eldamar...")

'knees' starts with a k in english but, of course, the k is silent. Do I therefore actually write the tengwar for n, e, e (with a curl for the s on the final e)? Or do I include the k? For the long e sound, I've written it as two separate e's as JRR Tolkien seems to have done in his inscription on the title page of fellowship (english phrase written with tengwar).

I'm also having trouble writing words such as "silent".. how do I express that i in silent? Do I use the tengwar for 'y' as that is the sound?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

From: New York, NY | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
melian the maia
Soldier of Gondor
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Wish I could help you but I don't really have a clue... []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am melian and melian means me

From: doriath | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kalluin Peredhel
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Nick, there is a site online called Amanye Tenceli that explains that a "carrier" is used with a vowel in the Tengwar to indicate whether it has a long or a short pronunciation. There are also other sites online where you can find poems and songs that already have been transliterated. Maybe referring to some of these will help?
From: The Last Homely House | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gwindor
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It's funny how much can happen in a month.. I've now read endless pages of information on the tengwar and can write about anything I see in it.

For anyone that is looking for the answer still, I have found it:

Depends!

Yes, it depends on your personal preference. You can write phonetically, or a letter-for-letter transliteration, or a mixture at your will. It also depends on what looks best in the context of what you're writing, as well.

As far as my own style, I would leave out the 'k' in 'knees' and write the the tengwar for n, then a long carrier with an 'e' tehta, and then a c shape for an 's' (which is not used in either the common mode, Christopher Tolkien's mode, or JRR's own mode, but from the mode of beleriand). I would write the long 'i' in 'silent' using a long carrier with the tehta for an i.

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Quendil
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Hi Nick,

I once stumbled upon the Tengwar Textbook, because I'm always doing research concerning the languages and writing systems. It's the best tengwar resource you can get. I once translated the whole Valaquenta into Tengwar. []

Wouldn't you want to join my elvish class? It sounds like you would have the time for it and that you're quite talented. []

[ 02-03-2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Quendil Gondolindrim ]

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Gwindor
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Oh yes, I've seen that site and it's great. That guy did an awesome job compiling the files, and clearly pointing out the differences between all the modes.

I'm currently working on not just transliteration, but tengwar calligraphy. I've always had an interest in calligraphy, and now I'm taking the elements of old styles (flat uncial, currently) and applying them to the tengwar. I may make some fonts, too.

And how does your elvish class work? It sounds interesting.. do you hold sessions online or something?

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Kalluin Peredhel
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Quendil, is your Elvish class different from the course that is offered by Helge Fauskanger on the Ardalambion site?
From: The Last Homely House | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Wandering Tuor
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Metafilter has a bunch of links to Tengwar resources today.
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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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Who bumped this, anyway?
If the original querant is ever still here:
I always write phonetically when I write in Tengwar.
Therefore, I would write the word 'knees' N I Z, as Tolkien used 'i' for the long 'ee' sound, and differentiated between 's' and 'z.'
But I could be completely wrong; the Tengwar in the title pages is not a phonetic transliteration, but a letter-by-letter one.
The best person in this city to ask would be Aikanaro. She even teaches Tengwar at conventions.

From: GreyHavens via Puget Sound | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Wandering Tuor
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From the comments section to the thead I linked to above: this site is an online Tengwar transcriber. Just change the output format to "PNG", type English in the first box, hit "Transcribe" and - voilá - Tengwar. Kinda cool.
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Snöwdog
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As mentioned by Kalluin Peredhel, Amanye Tenceli is quite a good site to help with working with Tengwar. Quite extensive!
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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