Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
 
Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Arwen and Undying lands
Author Topic: Arwen and Undying lands
Morgoth's step son
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 1177

posted      Profile for Morgoth's step son   Email Morgoth's step son   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I understand that she wanted to remain with Aragorn until he died so she couldn't go to Undying lands from Grey Havens, but if I remember correctly Legolas made a ship for Gimly and himself some time after Aragorns death. Was there any room for her? I never cuold understand that.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
O lente lente currite noctis equi ("Dr. Faustus", C. Marlowe)

From: Montenegro | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Erinti
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3470

posted      Profile for Erinti   Email Erinti   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
The point was that, she had chosen to be a mortal, and with that, given up her right to get into the Undying Lands (only allowed to immortals, that is, elves [and Maiar]). Instead, after her physical death, her spirit would go to whatever afterlife the spirits of mortals go ("heaven"?), and where elves in turn have no access.

Legolas, on the other hand, was a full-blooded elf who didn't even have the choice of mortality/immortality, and was therefore allowed to sail into the West. The three mortals that were allowed there (that is, to Tol Eressëa) for the rest of their lives, were exceptions: Frodo and Bilbo were Ringbearers, and Gimli got there only because of Galadriel's influence. Eventually they passed on, though.

There may be more in this thread; I don't have time to check through it now.

From: Somewhere out there | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 490

posted      Profile for Neytari Took-Baggins   Author's Homepage   Email Neytari Took-Baggins   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Why couldn't Galadriel (or even Elrond) get her granddaughter and her husband in if she could get Gimli (a dwarf!!!!!!) in? Or would that be something like party-crashing.

Galadriel: Is it alright that I brought a few friends?
Aragorn, Arwen, and Gimli: *wave*
Elf on the shore: Jeez, how many friends do you have?

[ 12-17-2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Neytari Took-Baggins ]

From: California ainrofilaC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2540

posted      Profile for Curufin the Crafty   Author's Homepage   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of logistics as a matter of choice. Why would Arwen have wanted to live after Aragorn was dead? As soon as she fell in love with him, her fate was sealed. She was doomed either to die of grief from losing him, or to face her mortal life.
From: Wherever people are oppressed... | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ZENITH
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 400

posted      Profile for ZENITH   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
[] Curufin []

[ 12-18-2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: ZENITH ]

From: The Mens Room. ENGLAND | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tar-Elenion
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 3618
posted      Profile for Tar-Elenion   Email Tar-Elenion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Even had she gone, and been allowed in, she would have died like all other mortals.
Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Snöwdog
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 15

posted      Profile for Snöwdog   Author's Homepage   Email Snöwdog   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of logistics as a matter of choice. Why would Arwen have wanted to live after Aragorn was dead? As soon as she fell in love with him, her fate was sealed. She was doomed either to die of grief from losing him, or to face her mortal life.
That is the thing about true love. Well said! as Aragorn laid down his life, it made living bittersweet for Arwen, who in a year or so's time did the same.
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Flammifer
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11407
posted      Profile for The Flammifer   Email The Flammifer   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Let’s not forget that 120 years passed between Galadriel’s sailing West and Gimli & Legolas’ passing West.

I believe there were two reasons that Gimli was allowed to sail with Legolas. Most importantly was the likely intercession of Galadriel, and secondly was the supplication of Legolas as there had never been such a devoted friendship between Elf and Dwarf. (Here we must believe there was some type (telepathic?) of communication between the Elves (Legolas) of Middle-earth and the Valar (possibly Eru) of Valinor; else how could Gimli’s sailing be sanctified?)

Arwen seems to be a somewhat different case. She knew her eventual outcome when she chose mortality. She knew she would never be granted the right to sail West; though when the time came and Elessar gave up his life she found the “Gift of Men” a bitter pill.

Tolkien hints only briefly at the anguish and grief at the parting of Arwen and Elrond. These short but moving moments means (to me) that their parting was permanent. Were it otherwise it would be a “temporary” parting and their leave-taking would be but a brief distancing (in the eyes and years of Elvenkind), and their parting would not be so grievous and seemingly permanent.

Could Arwen have gone on living after Elessar died? Possibly, we just don’t know. We do know that she virtually gave up her life when she chose mortality. Her love of Aragorn had to be above and beyond her love of her own life. It seems that Arwen was granted the singular concession to choose the time of her own death (as was Aragorn). So after Aragorn/Elessar gave up his life we can understand why Arwen chose to lay herself down on Cerin Amroth.

My, what a story! [] []

From: East Bight | Registered: Jun 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Arwen and Undying lands
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1