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Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Was Faramir wrong to wed Eowyn? (Page 2)
Author Topic: Was Faramir wrong to wed Eowyn?
faithfull
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quote:
Bint??

This parochial Bostonian needs an explanation - mostly cuz I want to start using the term...

Ummm, it is Arabic for girl, and, when used by non-arabs is tantamount to a white person using the term, "nigger" to refer to a person of color. []
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Snöwdog
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quote:
"it is Arabic for girl"
Yes, as dictionaries say.

quote:
"and, when used by non-arabs is tantamount to a white person using the term, "nigger" to refer to a person of color." []
As dictionaries don't say. That bit is a bit of editorialization on your part. []
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faithfull
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The fact that dictionaries have not yet caught up to the vagaries of cultural oppression does not mean that the oppression is non-existent. I didn't know that the term, "squaw" was a sensitive one for native-americans until a community in Idaho rallied to re-name a landmark.
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Snöwdog
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quote:
The fact that dictionaries have not yet caught up to the vagaries of cultural oppression does not mean that the oppression is non-existent.
Again, a bit of editorialization on your part. []
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faithfull
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quote:
Again, a bit of editorialization on your part
Yes. I'll let you know after I release the dictionary for publication. []
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Snöwdog
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Opinion vs Fact []
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Aiwrendel
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Someone might have bint off more than they could eschew.

[]

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Alcuin
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My son dated a Sudanese girl for a couple of years. According to her, bint most definitely carries that connotation. It is the usual Arab word for Africans south of the Sahara; furthermore, it means “slave”. It was part of her family’s (full) surname. She explained to us that it mean, “[black] slave of” such-and-such a person. Moslems maintain slave markets to this day: witness Boko Haram in the Sahel and ISIS in the Levant. There is a white-washed article on Wikipedia. The Saudis also maintain slavery, though they at least make a show of an effort to control it. Slavery is endemic in Africa and South Asia to this day.

─╫─

As for Aragorn marrying Éowyn: in the original drafts of LotR, Aragorn does marry Éowyn. Arwen is a character added later to the tale, which required some re-writing. This is laid out in Treason of Isengard, part of the History of Middle-earth series assembled by Christopher Tolkien.

─╫─

As for the Éowyn’s remark, “Would you have your proud people say of you, ‘Was there no woman of the race of Númenor to choose’”? that is both deliberate baiting and warning by Éowyn to Faramir.

The House of Eorl considered itself descended from the Kings of Rhovanion. Valacar, 18th king of Gondor, was sent by his father son of Rómendacil II to the King of Rhovanion as ambassador. He scandalized Gondor by marrying the King of Rhovanion’s daughter, Vidumavi. Their son was born Vinthanarya but ascended the throne of Gondor as Eldacar. The throne was seized from Eldacar by Castamir the Usurper, who initiated a cruel and intensely destructive civil war. (Note that this took place at the same time that civil war raged among the Northern Dúnedain as well!) Although the civil war ended when Castamir was defeated at the Crossings of Erui, his sons escaped to Umbar, where they fomented war and rebellion for three generations.

Éowyn’s remark was not idle chat. She was reminding Faramir of an incident that led to slaughter and ruin among his people and hers. “Was there no woman of the race of Númenor to choose?” was the complaint of the people of Gondor who backed Castamir, and probably of a good many that did not.

Rhovanion helped Eldacar regain the throne; his grandson, Hyarmendacil II, born in Rhovanion the year the civil war ended, was given the birth name Vinyarion. Faramir’s response, to kiss her on the city walls where everyone could see them, was confirmation of his love and deliberation; and the “light that surrounded them” was the Blessing of Eru to the match.

Faramir was far-sighted in his choice. His marriage united the House of the Stewards to the Kingdom of Rohan, a kingdom he knew must one day be united to the House of Isildur by dynastic marriage. He also knew that Fíriel, Royal Princess of Gondor, who wed Arvedui, the last kind of Arthedain and Aragorn’s ancestor, had royal blood of Rhovanion in her; the House of Eorl was thus distantly related to Aragorn, all of whose other ancestors were full-blooded Númenóreans. The House of the Stewards was related to the House of Anárion, but did not claim the throne (because of memories of the aforementioned civil war.) Faramir was setting the stage for the Aragorn’s descendents to marry his own, to tie together the ruling families of Gondor and Rohan.

Moreover, Éowyn was herself quite a catch! Tolkien describes her as strikingly beautiful, even to Aragorn, who was already betrothed to Arwen. Éowyn slew the Witch-king – no small feat. Théoden’s mother was a Dúnadan of Gondor. Morwen of Lossarnach; and since Éowyn’s mother was Théoden’s sister, she was part Númenórean, too. (Théoden grew up in Lossarnach until he was five, when his grandfather died and his father had to return home to receive the throne; “the speech of Gondor” (perhaps the Gondorian dialect of Sindarin that Frodo heard Mablung and Damrod speaking before the battle with the Oliphant, but more likely the Westron dialect of Adûnaic) was spoken in Théoden’s house.)

Finally, who would be Faramir’s closest confidant and advisor? Éowyn, of course! She knew the whole history of Gondor, at least back to the civil war and the days of Eldacar. She knew Aragorn, at first better than Faramir himself; Faramir undoubtedly sought her advice before Aragorn arrived at Minas Tirith after the Field of Cormallen. Éowyn was trained to be a queen. She was smart, observant, knowledgeable, had the inside scoop on Aragorn, and could play a key role in dealing with Gondor’s all-important ally, Rohan, where her brother was king.

Faramir was brilliant to wed Éowyn.

quote:
Bint??

This parochial Bostonian needs an explanation - mostly cuz I want to start using the term...

Bostonians are indeed parochial [] I live on the North Shore. If America stops at the Hudson for New Yorkers, it stops at the Charles for Bostonians. Don’t use it!

[ 10-20-2015, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Alcuin ]

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Snöwdog
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quote:
Faramir was brilliant to wed Éowyn.
Yeah he was. He didn't mind being Aragorn's 2nd or Aragorn's 2nds. []
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faithfull
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Alcuin, thankee, and very well met, indeed! []
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Snöwdog
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