Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
 
Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Who made Gandalf "White"?
Author Topic: Who made Gandalf "White"?
Mind Undone
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 725
posted      Profile for Mind Undone   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
The wizards took a particular shape when they came to middle earth. Why was Gandalf changed? Who changed him? And in what way was he different, specifically?
From: Tigard OR USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
silver0163
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 69
posted      Profile for silver0163   Email silver0163   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
The White Wizard is the head of the council. Gandalf was second in command and he was grey. Saruman was white until Gandalf discovered that he was no longer trying to undermine Sauron's power, which was his mission in coming to middle earth. When Gandalf was killed by the Balrog he went back to Aman and was there made the head of the council, since Saruman was a traitor. Therefore, he took Saruman's color of white.

I don't think there were any specifics on how this made him more powerful, or if it did at all, but I think it probably did in some way.


Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Nenya
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 238

posted      Profile for Nenya   Email Nenya   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
There is a discussion about this in the Library; Gandalf the White
From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dingalen
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 330
posted      Profile for Dingalen   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Silver's summary needs some corrections. Whether Gandalf went to Aman, for example. And what the wizards' colors signify.

This message has been edited by Dingalen on 08-22-2001 at


From: Somewhere in the Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
silver0163
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 69
posted      Profile for silver0163   Email silver0163   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah I'll admit my knowledge isn't too extensive. A lot of that was just assumptions, but I tried to say all I knew.
Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Midus unknown
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 358
posted      Profile for Midus unknown   Email Midus unknown   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
heres a good one, what color was radagast and the other wizards that were not spoke of very often
From: once i lived in the land of mirkwood but now i travel the world | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 490

posted      Profile for Neytari Took-Baggins   Author's Homepage   Email Neytari Took-Baggins   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Radagast: Brown
the other two: Blue

I dont believe they were spoken of at all in LotR. Correct me?

------------------
~Fool of a Took
"Since we cannot controle it, maybe we should just wait and see what happens. Hoping and praying wouldnt hurt either."


From: California ainrofilaC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 295

posted      Profile for Gandalf the White   Email Gandalf the White   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Illuvatar made Gandalf White.
From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Laurenendôrian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 106

posted      Profile for The Laurenendôrian   Email The Laurenendôrian   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
GtW, who?
From: Taruithorn | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mellon
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 402
posted      Profile for Mellon   Email Mellon   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Illuvatar, aka Eru, after consultation with Gandalf and learning the depths of Saruman's traitorous behavior, altered the chain of command in the 'Order of Istari' and declared that Gandalf would return to Middle-earth as the head of the order and assume the White status. That is why Gandalf's first duty was to cast down Saruman and break his staff when he returned.

------------------
the takers get the honey
givers sing the blues


From: houston, tx usa | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Mandin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 415

posted      Profile for Mandin   Author's Homepage   Email Mandin   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Too true.

Galadriel was the one, I believe with her maidens, who made the white robes. His right to wear white was the fact, of course, that Illuvatar altered the chain of command.
His enhanced power did not have anything to do, I don't think, with the color of his robes. He was more powerful because more of his extant Maiar power was put into the physical body that ILluvatar sent back to earth. Less of his power than before, in other words, was restrained by his body.


From: Houston, Missouri | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mellon
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 402
posted      Profile for Mellon   Email Mellon   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
He was more powerful because more of his extant Maiar power was put into the physical body that ILluvatar sent back to earth.

From the Silmarillion: 'Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the west of Middle-earth the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards. None knew at that time whence they were, save Círdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea. But afterwards it was said among the Elves that they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West to contest the power of Sauron...'

From Unfinished Tales: 'Emissaries they were from the Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took councel for the governance of Middle-earth...' 'For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of Men...but because of their noble sirits they did not die...'

I was not aware, nor do these texts state that the Istari were Maia. I have not read JRR's Letters and don't know if there is a specific reference to them being Maia.

Anybody else?


------------------
the takers get the honey
givers sing the blues

This message has been edited by Mellon on 08-23-2001 at


From: houston, tx usa | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
silver0163
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 69
posted      Profile for silver0163   Email silver0163   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well it says right there in the quote that the Valar sent some of their order, and their order is the Ainur, the Valar and Maiar.

The fact that they are immortal is another clue. They're certainly not elves, or else they wouldn't be able to take the form of men, so what else could they be?

When Gandalf finally went back to Aman after thousands of years, did he gain back all of his Maia powers?


Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 371
posted      Profile for cian   Edit/Delete Post 
"We must assume that they [the Istari] were all Maiar, that is persons of the 'angelic' order, though not necessarily of the same rank." Unfinished Tales
Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dingalen
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 330
posted      Profile for Dingalen   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Which specific powers do you refer to, silver?
From: Somewhere in the Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
silver0163
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 69
posted      Profile for silver0163   Email silver0163   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I was thinking specifically of the ability to change form. I can't think of any references to the powers that Olórin (Gandalf) had at his creation, only that many of his powers were restricted when he went to Middle Earth in the form of a man.
Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hamfast Gamgee
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5528

posted      Profile for Hamfast Gamgee   Author's Homepage   Email Hamfast Gamgee   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Why did Eru need Gandalf to tell him about the depths of Saruman's treason? I would have thought that Eru been Eru would have known everything anyway.
From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Flammifer
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11407
posted      Profile for The Flammifer   Email The Flammifer   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
The Silmarillion, Valaquenta
quote:
Wisest of the Maiar was Olorin. He too dwelt in Lorien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.
Letter 211
quote:
(The same is true of the ‘Istari’ or Wizards who were emissaries of the Valar, and of their kind.)
Edited to say that Olorin (Gandalf) was a Maia; thus we can rightfully assume that all the Istari were Maiar (called "People of the Valar" in LotR appendix).

[ 12-28-2015, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: The Flammifer ]

From: East Bight | Registered: Jun 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Who made Gandalf "White"?
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1