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Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Gandalf vs, Elrond - winner vs. Galadriel
Author Topic: Gandalf vs, Elrond - winner vs. Galadriel
King of the Numenoreans
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Who doyouthink will win?
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Gandlaf then Gandalf for he is a Maia and has more inherent stregnth and knowledge then any of the Eldar and besides no weapon of ME could hurt him after he came back.
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Maglor
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I agree with Fingolfin. Gandalf would have won easily. He's a maia and has lived in Valinor and would have far more strength and power then Elrond could ever have.
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Dingalen
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I think you are oversimplifying this: Just because, Gandalf (Olorin) was a Maia, had lived in Aman and had returned after being killed destroying a Balrog, does neither mean that he is invulnerable nor decidedly superior to Elrond and Galadriel. His dedication to the struggle against the Dark Lord and his fearlessness in his actions, show him as the most serious adversary of the Dark Lord of the 3 bearers of the elven rings.
Whether that really means that he could outfight Elrond or outmagic Galadriel is still dubious:
Galadriel knew of Gandalf's return before Gandalf realized who he was himself - and received him in the world of the living.
And it was Elrond who found the moon letters on Thorin's map. And it was Elrond arousing of the River that drove of the Nazgul and destroyed their steeds at the fords of the Bruinen.
Not to forget, that Galadriel and Elrond had lived on Middle Earth since the first age - Galadriel even coming from Aman.
No, I do not think it is as easy as saying: "Gandalf is a maia, he will kick their elven butts."
After all Saruman was a maia, too, and he died of getting his throat slit by a sniveling footpad.

I think, Elrond could have bested Gandalf the Grey and Galadriel might have out-sorcered even Gandalf the White!

(Go ahead, prove me wrong!)

------------------
As silent as greenwood the great.


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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Saruman was no longer I maia when Wormtongue killed him. OK so you doubt that Gandalf was impervious to middle-earth assalt. What weapon would elrond or Galadriel use then.
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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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Elrond and Galadriel are never mentioned with weapons, they could use "elf magic" but then again Gandalf could use "real magic" and he could also use Glamdring.
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Exactly if there were to try to kill him with magic they would fail for though elves do have inherent powers as such, they are not even comparable to that of a Maia. But if they were to try weapons he could just do what he did when Legolas shoot an arrow and Gimli readied his axe.
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Earendilyon
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Gandalf would win.

Fingy, Saruman was still a Maia at the time he (at least his body) was killed. He was a Maia greatly deminished in power, but still a Maia.

This message has been edited by Earendilyon on 04-23-2001 at


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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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So most people think Gandalf would win, but what about Elrond vs. Galadriel? i think id have to go with Elrond.
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Tuor
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quote:

'Yes you may still call me Gandalf,' he said, and the voice was the voice of their old friend and guide. ' Get up, my good Gimili! No blame to you, and no harm done to me. Indeed my friends, none of you has any weapon that could hurt me. Be merry!

I believe Gandalf just said that he could not be hurt by any weapon of ME.


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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Ok, my bad Earendilyon. Nonetheless Gandalf still would hav won.
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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Couldn't Gandalf the Grey be hurt by weapons?
From: Nowadays: The Lord of the Rings Fanatics Forum | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Nenya, the Ring of Water
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Didn't Gandalf tell Frodo that he was more dangerous than anybody he would ever meet, except for Sauron? Or does he just have a large ego?
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Alexius
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IF Gandalf the White could not be hurt by any weapons, could he have faced the Dark Lord himself in single combat? Perhaps he would most likely be overwhelmed by the inherently more powerful spirit/magics of Sauron, but I believe a trial in arms would find the White prevailing...

quote:
Galadriel knew of Gandalf's return before Gandalf realized who he was himself - and received him in the world of the living.
Being reincarnated is no mean feat, it is understandable that Olorin could not remember Gandalf. Galadriel may have known of Gandalf's reincarnation, but that does not prove her superiority. All it shows is Olorin has returned, more potent, and powerful than he was as the Greyhame.

Eru willed it that Greyhame should be sacrificed for the power of Olorin to be fully unleashed.

quote:
And it was Elrond who found the moon letters on Thorin's map. And it was Elrond arousing of the River that drove of the Nazgul and destroyed their steeds at the fords of the Bruinen.
True, yet that does not prove his superiority in any way. YOU look over the fact that Gandlaf was besieged on Amon-Sul at night by 4(? 5?) Nazgul, without the saftey of a Kingdom and seat of power Elrond had at Bruinen.

quote:
Not to forget, that Galadriel and Elrond had lived on Middle Earth since the first age - Galadriel even coming from Aman.
Gandalf was created ages before Elrond, and even Galadriel had set foot on Middle Earth.

quote:
After all Saruman was a maia, too, and he died of getting his throat slit by a sniveling footpad.
Saruman was in a state of disgrace, and having been defrocked, he had lost most of his potency. He was a crippled, toothless jackal with a Cobra's voice at best.

Gandalf was the direct servant and messenger of Eru. "I am the servant and wielder of the Secret Fire!...". While Elrond and Galadriel certainly are very strong leaders and powerful "sorcerers" in their own way, it can be assumed that the herald of Eru is many times the superior of any other lesser Maia on Middle Earth. Perhaps if Olorin had been fully unleashed, he would have rivaled Sauron himself in power, yet in doing so, Olorin faced the danger of corruption.

Nevertheless, he was still more powerful, restrained or not.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"...that to serve God satisfies the heart, and that only in the service of God and of his kingdom do we realize ourselves in accordance with the divine plan, and life becomes a hymn of glory to the Most Holy Trinity"

- Pope John Paul II

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Fëanor, spirit of fire
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Gandalf the white would beat both. And as for Galadriel vs Elrond, Elrond would win in a fight because Galadriel was not a warrior and there is no evidence suggestin she can fight or use her great power in battle. Gandalf the white has more spiritual power, better weaponry and more powerful magic.
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Aragorn 3rd
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I find it intriguing how youve set out this battle, the winner of elrond vs gandalf white gets to fight galadriel. surely shouldnt it be the winner of galadriel and elrond gets to fight gandalf seeing as he has far more power spiritually, and in battle.

But my answer to this is that gandalf the white would win...infact hed beat them both at the same time...he is maiar, i doubt that galadriels ability to control or of insight would work on him (even so he could probably turn it around in some way).

Also he could flame the pair of them if he really wanted to (remember what he did to the wolves on the mountain in the fotr?)- if youd like me to quote ill find the quote but i cant be bothered to get the book right now.

Id also say that gandalf the grey could beat both of them, though probably not at the same time.

Notice that when gandalf returns as gandalf the white not even sauron scared him any more...he has no fear of anything in ME, so it seems by the way he acts after his return.

quote:
I have returned for the turn of the tide, the great storm is coming but the tide has turned.
If you ask me as soon as gandalf the white appeared it was inevitable that the ring would be destroyed...i also believe gandalf the white had enough power to defeat sauron, except we must remember that he was not allowed to interfere directly with the task (just as all the istari), he had his job to do, this was not to destroy sauron or directly intervene.

Out of galadriel vs elrond...thats a better question...id say elrond (even though i believe galadriel to be more powerful than elrond) however galadriels power is not in the form of fighting. There is no evidence of her being a warrior yet elrond was a very good warrior. She is great, just as Steven Hawkins is a great man, but Lennox Lewis (who is also a great man in his own rights) would beat him in a fight. Glorfindel could beat the pair in a fight (but not gandalf).

Greatness doesnt neccessarily mean that one is better at combat...i would say feanor was greater than fingolfin yet fingolfin would beat him in combat.

Gandalf the grey beat durins bain, i doubt elrond or galadriel could defeat durins bane...now think of gandalf the white.

Citizen 2612, how do you know that sauron had more spiritual powerful magic than gandlaf the white? there is no evidence of this at all, as no one knows the exact power g t w had. If he was simply olorin in middle earth with all his power then there is the possibility that he was more spiritual than sauron. Where does it say that sauron was more spiritual than olorin? Sauron was not the most powerful maiar, think of others such as osse. But as Gandalf wasnt allowed to directly intervene he couldnt ride up to sauron and kill him even if he did have the ability to do it...hed also have to get through a few tens of thousands of orcs and the nazgul first.

[ 01-07-2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Aragorn 3rd ]

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Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
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quote:
Gandalf the grey beat durins bain, i doubt elrond or galadriel could defeat durins bane...now think of gandalf the white.
Well, both Glorfindel and Ecthelion killed balrogs. This is not something out of the question for one of the Eldar, and I certainly wouldn't put it past either one of them...
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Aragorn 3rd
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Both glorfindel and ecthelion were great fighters...galadriel was no fighter, elrond was no specialist in fighting...feanor died against gothmog. If you look at it that way...would galadriel or elrond beat feanor in battle?
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Roll of Honor Curufin the Crafty
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Neither one. I don't think anyone except a Maia or Vala could beat Fëanor in battle.

My point, however, was that killing Durin's Bane wasn't what made Gandalf great...

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Éoric of the Riddermark
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One could argue that since Fëanor was defeated by Gothmog, and Gothmog was defeated by Ecthelion...well, you can do the math. []

(And yes, I know the situations were different in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath and the Fall of Gondolin...)

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Lady Sandry of Ruatha
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if we are talkin gandalf the grey, then elrond woud beat him, then be beaten by galadriel.
if gandalf the white, then he would have won hands down.

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Aragorn 3rd
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finrod, but my point in saying that gandalf killed durins bane wasnt making out how great he was either. It was showing that gandalf the grey had the fighting ability to kill a balrog. Something i doubt very much that galadriel could do, there is the possibility that elrond could kill a balrog but id tend to go for the balrog...

So, in battle we must remember that only fighting abilities count (nothing to do with insight of mind or telling te future or great lore unless it can be utilised as a force in battle)...galadriels mind attacks or insight would not work on gandalf the grey and certainly not on gandalf the white (due to his higher spiritual power and maiar abilities). Meaning she would be resorted to using a weapon...me thinks glamdring would win here, failing that a lightning bolt might fry her up.

As gandalf or galadriel or elrond would never fight each other as they are on the same side we can see how good they were in battle by the enemies they killed. Gandalf grey killed a balrog, Elrond killed many orcs and enemies of morgoth, galadriel didnt exactly kill much.

I have my own opinions but i believe that elrond could kill galadriel because he was a good fighter and not so far off in spititual power to her either. Gandalf the grey was greater spiritual power than both galadriel and elrond (surely no one will disagree with this) so he could beat them both. Gandalf the white would trash the pair of them together and the whole fellowship at the same time.

In spiritual power my list goes in rank:
1.gandalf white
2.gandalf grey
3. galadriel
4. elrond

In fighting power my list goes
1.gandalf white
2.gandalf grey
3.elrond
4.galadriel

Heres a different question that might make this interesting:

Who would win...
1.gandalf white vs sauron (if gandalf was permitted to fight him)
2.galadriel vs luthien
3.elrond vs glorfindel

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