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Minas Tirith Forums » Lord of the Rings » Boromir, Good or Evil? (Page 1)
Author Topic: Boromir, Good or Evil?
Glorfindel
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Was Boromir a Noble warrior who aided in the survival of the Fellowship, or was he an incarnation of evil which took form, and becoming the downfall of the Group?

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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"


From: »»»][mladris««« | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gimli
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The mighty Boromir proved his mettle, on the lone hilltop with Frodo. He weakness was nearly the undoing of the Western World, and WAS the undoing of the Company of the Ring. His infinite greed led him to betray his friends and use his larger size to try and seize the ring by force. Yet Aragorn, who stood a great deal more to lose, was capable of allowing Frodo to make his own choice. In short, Boromir was a detriment and a liability. His end was fitting, penetrated by many orc arrows.

"Faithless is he who says farewell when the path darkens"

This message has been edited by Gimli on 03-13-2001 at


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Mithrandir
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wrong. sorry, just had to say that. Boromir, like all mortal men, was prone to greed, him maybe more than others because he loved his city and knew he didn't stand much of a chance. If you recall, Boromir immediately appoligized to Frodo for it, though he wasn't heard. Think about it...Frodo went into crazed fits over it...and so did Boromir...he can't be blamed. He was a noble warrior, the son of Denethor. And also, remember that Denethor, the Steward of Minas Tirith, also lusted for the Ring (though he was slightly corrupt, ok alot corrupt) So, basically Boromir just had his Ring driven craze at the exact wrong time.
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Eldfess
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Right Mithrandir. Gimli, you do injustice by speaking of Boromir like that. He didn't understand what the ring would do to him. He didn't know that he was almost completely under the rings control. And if you'll remember, he died trying to save the other hobbits. He was human, and fell. But do not focus on his fall. Now, about his splitting apart the fellowship, yes that did happen. However, perhaps that was what had to happen. Think about it, they still had to make the decision to split up or go one or the other way. In fact, Boromir's splitting of the company actually saved them all. The ones that had to take the ring did that, and the others held out and protected the city, brought the riders of the riddermark, and the realization of who Aragorn was to his new kingdom, not to mention the spirits. It worked out beautifully, as works of destiny usually do.

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They say that the definition of insanity is asking stupid questions. I want to know who 'they' is.


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Mithrandir
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exactly, it fits the story so perfectly....the whole Frodo trying to be the hero, running off, but with reason, forcing the others to go and meet up with gandalf, destroy isengard, and win some battles =) i actually read a neat article about how LoTR is all about Sam, not frodo, im reminded of it becuz of sam jumping in the boat as frodo departed.
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Glorfindel
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I believe that Boromir was a great aid to the Fellowship, if you remember when the Fellowship first tried to get through the Cahardas mountains they would have died in the snow if not for Boromir and Aragorn. Boromir lead the way and the 2 of them basically became a man shovel. They plowed a way back down the mountains and carried the Hobbits. If not for Boromir the great Felowship might have been ended right there. Aswell the first main battle of the Party was against the Wargs. The great wolves which attacked the Party right before they entered the halls of Moria. In that battle Boromir was responsible for the death of a Warg Captain, a great wolf whose head was loped of by Boromir son of Denethor (im not even going into the battle inside the halls of Moria). In no way was Boromir a detriment to the Party and with out him the fate of the Fellowship might have turned out much worse.

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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"


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Mithrandir
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very true, theres no question he was a vital part, and he served his role to the fullest.
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Gimli
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Ok perhaps you have a point with the destiny remarks. Im not saying that fate wasnt involved in the process. Im saying that Aragorn had alot more to lose....Boromir was the Son of a Steward (the lesser son, if you think about it carefully enough. Aragorn was the True King, the Healer, the Elfstone. If Minas Tirith fell, so did Gondor and the rest of the West. Why wasnt anyone else trying to wrest the ring from Frodo. It was here that Boromir proved his greed, and it was his undoing. As far as alopologizing went....so what? The man tried to take the ring and bring it to a place where he was told by Elrond, that the End of the World would be assured. Good job Boromir, good job.

"Faithless is he who says fairwel when the path darkens"


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Roland
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Don't forget he fought in Moria and also when the company was ambushed by wolves. So he did play a part by fighting for and defending the fellowship. He was a valiant man but couldn't withstand the power of the one ring. Poor guy..
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Glorfindel
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Boromir, there was only honor in him. He was one of the most valiant characters there but his honor was his downfall. He fought with bravery and gave his life for 2 hobbits. Twenty fould Orcs lay slain at his feet and more would have fallen to his blade if they had not pierced him with his arrows. However It was his honor that the ring subdued. Boromir was tempted by the rind for even after the Meeting in Imladris, he did not fully understand the ring. He though of only leading great armies and conquering the dark lord but did not give a though to the circumstances. A tragic fall, was his death and a moment that to this day birngs tears to my eyes, but is the Heir of Elendil would honor Boromir then SO Will I.

"Through Rohan over fen and field where he long grass grows
THe west wind comes walking, and about the walls it goes.
What news form the West, O wandering wind, do you bring to me tongint?
Have you seen Boromir the Tall by moon or by starlight?
I saw him ride over seven streams, over waters wide and gray;
I saw him walk in empty lands, intil he passed away
Into the shadows of te North, I saw him then no more.
The north Wind may have heard the horn of the son of Denthor.
O oromir! Form the high walls westward i looked afar
But you came not form the empty lands where no men are."

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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"


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WonderBroad
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I have high regard for Boromir for his faithful service (even though the lure of the Ring became too much--see below). He had flaws, yes, but they were understandable. He was the Heir to Minas Tirith. The Stewards of Gondor ruled with virtually the same power and authority of kings. This made him proud and, at times, arrogant, because he was next in line. Faramir, although he had great love and honor for his brother, pointed out to Frodo and Sam that Boromir was well aware of his own importance and personal abilities. Faramir also noted that Boromir was very disturbed that his father was not a king (and, if you extend that, that "kingship" would then have applied to him as heir). Denethor, of course, set Boromir straight. But then, Denethor ruled with a king's power, and all of the privilege that went with the position, so he could live with the name of "Ruling Steward." Small price to pay for lordship of such a great land!

Boromir was respectful of Aragorn, but it had not yet come to the test. Gandalf says as much to Denethor. Realize that Boromir stood to lose everything. Could he have stepped aside in favor of Aragorn? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe his pride would have been too much. Denethor, in his own pride and madness, rejected Aragorn's claim. If he had lived, he would have refused to step down. "I will not be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart, even if his claim were proved to me...!" (Well, that's not the exact quote, but I don't have the book here with me at work.)

Getting back to Boromir. Having said what I did about his pride and arrogance, I still feel that it can be explained, if not excused. Boromir loved Gondor--really loved it. It's survival was everything to him. Whether he could have accepted Aragorn in the end is a question mark. Remember, right before he died, he said to Aragorn: "Go to Minas Tirith and save =my= people" (emphasis mine). He didn't say "Save our people." He still saw the city as his own responsibility, and his own destiny.

As for the Ring's influence on him...because Boromir was so single-minded in what he wanted (saving Gondor), he could think of little else. I think Gandalf said to him (or Denethor--I can't remember) that Gondor was not the only place facing destruction, and that thought had to be taken regarding these other realms.

But, to Boromir, he couldn't get past his obsession with Gondor. The Ring was a way to save his beloved city. The lure of it, and its promise of power, was too much for him. He imagined himself as a great Captain "...how I would drive the hosts of Mordor!", invincible, benevolent. But, remember, Galadriel also saw herself as the greatest Queen to ever live and rule, when she allowed herself to dream of the power the Ring would give her. Sam saw himself as a great warrior and gardner (healer), when he put on the ring. Gandalf and Aragorn wouldn't even contemplate ownership of the Ring, for heaven's sake!

All of those rejected the Ring. Boromir did not. He fell under its spell and could not extricate himself until "the madness had passed". But by then, Frodo was on the run, and the wheels were in motion. It is a blessing that Boromir died as he did, because it redeemed him. He succumbed to the Ring, but escaped, even though it meant his death. He was all too human when it came to being tempted by the Ring, but at the end he found redemption. I'm glad he did.


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thingol
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same here. i think there's nothing more to say.

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seek for the sword that was broken:
in imladris it dwells;
there shall be counsels taken
stronger than morgul-spells.


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Mithrandir
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and remember, Frodo also went into crazed fits where he had no control...this is more likely to happen to a person like Boromir, a person of great power in a great time of need. Aragorn didn't have more to lose...his mission was undecided, he might be destined to journey to Mordor...Boromir had his mission set before him and wanted to achieve it. The ring, if you let it, will take control of you, whether you wear it or not. unless your very strong mentally (or very weak physically) then if you have thoughts of asking for the ring...they quickly turn into much more.
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Glorfindel
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well... Here we speak that Boromir is not evil, but what would happen if he had caught Frodo... The temptation of the Ring might have been too great, at which point the true nature of Boromir would be revealed. Remember the ring only brings out the evil of the person who wields it. Boromir might have discraced himself as well as doing harm to Frodo for i do not think that he would be able to hold of his lust for the ring.

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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"


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Mithrandir
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had he taken the ring....he would attempt to use it for his purposes, but would ultimately become corrupt
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Gimli
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There is no question that the Ring corrupted him, but I beleive his merit was such that he was easily corrupted. Look at his father. I do realize that Faramir proves that you dont always take after your dad, but thats only because of Gandalf's guidance. Other then that, he would have become liek Boromir, corrupt and ultimately very greedy. It is my belief he would have killed Aragorn if it suited his right to rule Minas Tirith.

"Faithless is he who says 'farewell' when the path darkens"


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Mithrandir
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ok....
a) he couldn't have
and
b) can you say riot? i can.

so, of course, people in great need with a lust for power are going to more "prone" to be controlled the ring. he had his faults, Faramir knew that.


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Miturian
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You say that it is a sign of evilness to lust for the ring and to attempt to achieve it.
Isildur also took the ring for own purpose, is he evil then too?

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If you haven't been at the buttom,
and climbed all the way op,
then you don't know what you're standing on.


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Gimli
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Not to be obvious here, but he who casts aside the guidance of someone who you have traveled a thousand leagues to seek consul from, lacks any form of intelligence. Boromir IGNORED Elrond. The ring caused a lust for power, Im not saying that Boromir was evil, nor have I ever. Im saying he was weak and a liability. As for helping save the Company from Cahadras, he was BIG. Big does not mean noble, and intelligent.

"Faithless is he who says 'farewell' when the path darkens"


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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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i agree with Gimli

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Three ring for the Elven Kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for the Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One ring to rule them all,
One ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all,
And in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.


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Glorfindel
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I on the contrary completely disagree with the both of you. Basically what you are saying is that Boromir was not Noble, and further more that he wasn’t intelligent (both of which are completely inconceivable) yet you say that his part in contributing to the party was big. Well guess what, his role in the fellowship excluding the attempted attack on Frodo showed only Nobility, honor and intelligence. So you say that it is not Noble to put your self in front of a charging Orchish Captain to save the life of a Hobbit, and it is not noble to face a Great Troll in battle to ensure the well being of the party, it is not noble to thrust youre blade through the throat of a Warg Captain whose aim is to kill the ringbeared, and of course what was he thinking attempting to stay back with Gandalf in Moria and face a power beyond his own comprehension, a creature that could pry his life form his very body. And of course we cant forget his MOST heinous act of all, giving up his life to defend two hobbits which had not a single impact on his life (HELL if there was one Unintelligent action performed by Boromir, THIS WAS IT. His role was to aid Gondor and lead his people, not to die protecting two furry creatures form the Shire.

“A mile maybe, form path Galen in a little glade not far from the lake he found Boromir. He was sitting with his back to a great tree, as if he was resting. But Aragorn saw that he was pierced with many black-feathered arrows; his sword was still in his hand, but it was broken near the hilt; his horn cloven in two was at his side. Many Orcs lay slain, piled all about him. Aragorn’s glance strayed to his fallen enemies; twenty at least lay there.”

Through the whole Journey Boromir showed only Nobility, only Honor and not one unintelligent decision can be found save for the one.
It was not Boromir who was at fault, only the ring. It was Boromirs hopes for victory, his hopes and wished to set things right and be rid of the Dark Lord for ever, that the ring played its power on. It subdued him for that moment and Boromir could do nothing, the ring used its power to try and acquire a new carrier for its own purposes, to get closer to its master through this Warrior, who would charge to battle in the front ranks, and only the front ranks. The ring found a target and it went for it, the target might as well have been anyone else in the party but the ring chose him, and him for a reason that the ring saw beneficial to its existence. When speaking to Frodo right before his attempt at the ring Boromir made it clear that he know very well what Elrond said and was agreeing with Frodo, but it was not the same Boromir that tried to take the ring, he agreed with Frode and then he attacked him. The ring took over and it was not Boromir who was assulting Frodo it was the will of the ring, and boromir was forced to proceed. In no way can Boromir be blamed and those who do so, do not truly see his stature. He was a man of Gondor and a man of Greatness, through him the blood of honor flowed and his fate was sorrowful, but such is war, great men are not immortal.


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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"

This message has been edited by Glorfindel on 03-16-2001 at


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Galdor of the Tree
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EVERYONE WHO THINKS BOROMIR WAS STUPID OR EVIL IS A DUMBASS! boromir may have done things unwise but noone could resist expecially men. he was the weakest of the fellowship against the One and understood least but needed it most BUT NOT TO USE IT FOR EVIL all he wanted was to save MT if anyone else had been near it long enough they would have fallen too even elrond or gandalf whom none of you would call stupid or evil
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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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"the one who knows the least is the most prone to danger" or something like that...Boromir was a noble man, a PROUD warrior. he had his faults, who didnt?
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Mithrandir
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oops, that last post of mine (under gandalf) was mine, i just forgot to log out
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Glorfindel
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"From the Gate of King the North Wind rides, and past the roaring falls;
And clear and cold aout the tower its loud horn calls.
What news from the Norht,O might wind, do you bring to me today?
What news of Boromir the Bold? For he is long away.
Beneath Amon Hen i heard his cry. There many foes he fought.
Hes cloven shield, his broken sword, they do the water brought.
His head so proud, his face so fair, his limbs they laid to rest;
And Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, bore him upon its breast.
O Boromir! The Tower of Guard shall ever norht ward gaze
To Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, until the end of days."

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"It is the Doom of Men that they Forget!"


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