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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Tolkien races corresponding to Real World ages
Author Topic: Tolkien races corresponding to Real World ages
Pippin Toker
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Hi

Im not quite sure where to put this question.

Do you have any iseas what ages differetn races/cultures corospond to in our world?

The Hobbits seem to be 19th century country persons.

The Rohiri seem to be anglo saxon people.

Are the people of Ghan-Buri-Ghan stoneage?

Kim

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White Gold Wielder
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I've always thought of them as aboriginal.
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Roll of Honor pi
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The Numenoreans are Atlantans.
The Far Haradrim and Khand(rim?) are black/negroid Africans?
The Easterlings are what, Slavic/Turkic peoples maybe?
Some of Saruman's servants with the "slant-eyes" are perhaps of the mongoloid ethnicity?

Is any of this politically correct? Am I going straight to h... e... double hockey sticks?

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Roll of Honor Snowman of Forochel
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Ya screwed up again, pi. []

The Numenoreans were like the Atlanteans, not Atlantans, and the Khand were like the Mongols, not Black Africans.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
GEAUX SAINTS!!

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Roll of Honor pi
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Hey Snowy, my average is one a day, so I'm good for the rest of the day! []
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Tigranes
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Er... it isn't known what the hypothetical Atlanteans were said to look like, is it?
About the Easterlings: I've always wondered about their appearance. Perhaps somebody with more Tolkien knowledge could enlighten me how they looked like?
Also, Slavic people are not in any way related to Turkic people. []

[ 06-26-2009, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Roll of Honor pi
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quote:
Slavic people are not in any way related to Turkic people
I know, but they both originated in regions east of the M-e map, as fas as it overlays the real world one.
I guess I should have been more precise by saying "perhaps either the Slavic or the Turkic peoples." []

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Tigranes
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Actually, the Slavs are believed to have originated somewhere around modern Ukraine (cannibals in Pripyet swamps...), which is AFAIK still on the ME map. Turkic people come from Northeast and northern central Asia.
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Captain of Gondor
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quote:
About the Easterlings: I've always wondered about their appearance. Perhaps somebody with more Tolkien knowledge could enlighten me how they looked like?
I've always felt that they probably looked like muslims during thier heyday aka Dark Ages. Only problem with that is the fact that they are heavily armored in the books and Muslims were never heavily armored. Or else they could possibly have been like the Persians. Come to think of it, they fit the description almost perfectly.
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Mablung
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I always imagined that the Southrons were Muslims: they lived north of Africa and used scimitars.
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Mablung
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I was just reading some information that scimitars developed, and were used, almost exclusively among cultures pertaining to modern Islamic reagions (Middle East, Turkey, Egypt etc). This might indicate that the Southrons related to them.

[ 08-20-2009, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Mablung ]

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Tigranes
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Scimitars were developed by Steppe people in North Asia/Eastern Europe in early Medieval times. They were made popular mainly by Turkic people. The early Muslims (at the time of the Muslim expansion) didn't know scimitars - they used straight swords. Some forms of scimitar-like swords were already used in Antiquity, though.

[ 08-21-2009, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Mablung
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Scimitars were used in the South Asian, North African and Middle Eastern areas literally thousands of years prior to the beginning of either Islamic or medieval eras, largely by Semites.
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Tigranes
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Care to provide some sources?

Also, please bear in mind that not every curved sword may be classified as "scimitar". AFAIK this word specifically refers to the swords carried mostly by Turks/Mongols and later also by Arabians and Europeans. When Tolkien mentions "scimitars", he certainly doesn't refer to swords such as Kopis/Falcata, Yatağan, or the Southern Indian or Southeast Asian types.

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Mablung
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quote:
Care to provide some sources?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Scimitar
http://jss.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/3/4/327
http://www.bukisa.com/articles/70020_the-agile-scimitar
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Scimitar

Scimitars date well-back to almost 2000 B.C. in that region.

quote:
Also, please bear in mind that not every curved sword may be classified as "scimitar". AFAIK this word specifically refers to the swords carried mostly by Turks/Mongols and later also by Arabians and Europeans. When Tolkien mentions "scimitars", he certainly doesn't refer to swords such as Kopis/Falcata, Yatağan, or the Southern Indian or Southeast Asian types.
More like Egypt and the Middle East, which correspond to the Northern African regions of Near Harad in which the Southrons dwelled.

However, I will note that the Orc-Chieftain in Moria (the one who stabbed Frodo with his spear) also had a scimitar (which he "swept out" when Sam cut the head off his spear): but there isn't great mention of other orcs having such weapons, so Sauron could have gotten it by trading with Southrons.

[ 08-23-2009, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Mablung ]

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Mablung
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Also:
quote:
Are the people of Ghan-Buri-Ghan stoneage?

They seem to be primitive hunter-gatherer types, so they are probably some remnant of Paleolithic (i.e. early stone-age) tribesmen.
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Snöwdog
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In my mind, I related Near Harad to north Africa & Far Harad with mid & South Africa. Khand always hit me more as Asiatic kung-fu types, and Easterlings as NW Asian/NE European types.
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Tigranes
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Sounds reasonable. Pretty much what I associate them with; indeed, the Haradrians appear more Berber than Arab in my mind.
Although one could, of course, try to define "NE European" and "NW Asian" closer. Moreover, I'd rather associate Far Harad with Central Africa only - Bantu a.k.a. "Blacks" (especially those that tend to be very tall, like the "Men of Far Harad") are from C Africa, not Southern Africa; furthermore S Africa is different in terms of nature.

[ 10-14-2009, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Tigranes ]

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Snöwdog
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True, but I didn't split hairs as I was only expressing wide generaliaties that my mind has about a Middle Earth overlay of Earth and the peoples thereof.
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