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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Was Tolkien an environmentalist? (Page 2)
Author Topic: Was Tolkien an environmentalist?
Grimwulf Stormspear
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I’m not sure, Wiki, but I think the term “anachronism” refers to your bizarre claim that the “ ‘Rings of Power’ was [sic] a metaphor witnessed during … the Cold War via empowering and beguiling upstart-factions within sovereign nations, to gain imperial puppets.” [] Of course, I’m not even sure what that sentence means (if anything), so I could be wrong. []
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
I’m not sure, Wiki, but I think the term “anachronism” refers to your bizarre claim that the “ ‘Rings of Power’ was [sic] a metaphor witnessed during … the Cold War via empowering and beguiling upstart-factions within sovereign nations, to gain imperial puppets.” Of course, I’m not even sure what that sentence means (if anything), so I could be wrong.
I said "witnessed during," but I didn't give any names.

Newtonian physics was a principle witnessed during space-shuttle's liftoff-- by your definition, THAT's an "anachronism" too.

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Grimwulf Stormspear
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Yeah… []

I’m still not sure what you mean. [] I’m not sure your sentence means anything at all. [] You see, a metaphor is “a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance.”

So, when say that the “ ‘Rings of Power’ was [sic] a metaphor witnessed during … the Cold War via empowering and beguiling upstart-factions within sovereign nations, to gain imperial puppets,” it’s not really clear what you mean. [] Metaphors are used by writers & speakers to represent something else. So, who was using the Rings of Power as a metaphor, and what id they represent? [] And what does it mean to say that metaphor was “witnessed”?

At the very least, you could have been clearer. [] You could have said that “the Rings of Power were later appropriated by some commentators as a metaphor for [insert bizarre comparison here],” although I have no idea what relevance that would have to your original point, which I think may have had something to do with Creation & Design.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
Yeah…

I’m still not sure what you mean.

"Universe..." "one song."

Fits in nicely with "The Music of the Ainur" (Angels).

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Eluchil
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I see that you still don't understand what I meant with "anachronism" - have a look in the dictionary []
And your example ( [] ) with Newton shows it very well []

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Snöwdog
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I wonder where the ents were when the Numenoreans were clear-cutting Eriador for their ship-building? The tale of Aldarion and Erendis has a bit on forest preservation vs use.

anachronism

1: an error in chronology; especially : a chronological misplacing of persons, events, objects, or customs in regard to each other
2: a person or a thing that is chronologically out of place; especially : one from a former age that is incongruous in the present
3: the state or condition of being chronologically out of place

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Hamfast Gamgee
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One interesting point is that Tolkien does have climate change in the Silmarillion, but in that case it is Middle-earth cooling as Morgoth destroyes the environment around Angband after it's siege it creates colder summers and freezing winters for those in Beleriand.
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Snöwdog
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Why do you think Angband created colder weather in Beleriand? Surely it wasn't due to the output of CO2. More likely due to the particulates blotting out the sun, much like volcanoes do. Of course, Tolkien seemed to write in that a certain amount of weather control was asserted by the evil beings, with the aforementioned bit on Angband, and by the Witch King in Carn Dum.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
I see that you still don't understand what I meant with "anachronism" - have a look in the dictionary
I assume you meant that string-theory wasn't developed at the time of Tolkien's writing, but again space-shuttles weren't developed in Newton's era either, so there's nothing "anachronistic" about my comparing the Ainur's Music to string-theory.

If you're suggesting that Tolkien wasn't referring poetically to string-theory, then congratulations.

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Eluchil
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quote:
I assume you meant that string-theory wasn't developed at the time of Tolkien's writing, but again space-shuttles weren't developed in Newton's era either, so there's nothing "anachronistic" about my comparing the Ainur's Music to string-theory.
Logically wrong. The concept of Newtonian physics did exist before space-shuttles, while the concept itself of Cold War didn't when Tolkien wrote about the Rings.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
In this context, "Rings of power" was a metaphor witnessed during (but not allegory for) the Cold War via empowering and beguiling upstart-factions within sovereign nations, to gain imperial puppets.

The key phrase is "a metaphor witnessed during (but not allegory for)".
Tolkien was expressing to an age-old political phenomenon, which long predated the Berlin Blockade-- but which became particularly prevalent with the turn of the century in bringing about WWI.

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Grimwulf Stormspear
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Does Witch King ever contribute anything, well, useful? [] [] []
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Tuor
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Some people consider volume useful. He is a rather prolific poster and he keeps people posting to threads like this one.
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