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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » How long elves stays in mandos (Page 2)
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Eluchil
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That has nothing to do with Fëanor. Finwë can't return because he agreed on Míriel's return. But one consequence of the "Statute of Finwë and Míriel" is that no Living can have two spouses "awake and alive" in the same time. By accepting Míriel's return, Finwë condamned himself to stay in Mandos till the End of Time. That was an act of love, somehow []
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Alcuin
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I prepared this to post, and Eluchil beat me to it. I second his position.

Finwë’s fate had nothing to do with Fëanor. When Míriel Þerindë refused to be rehoused, Finwë requested and received permission to wed Indis of the Vanyar. Finwë was subsequently murdered by Morgoth and went to Mandos. Míriel decided that she wished to leave Mandos and return to be among the living, and because Finwë could not be in the world of the living with two spouses, he elected to remain in Mandos so that the fëa and hröa of Míriel might be rejoined.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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Still seems a bit harsh. He had his reasons for marrying twice. Maybe he should divorce one of his wives on the grounds that the other is still alive. Does he have any grounds for parole or is he condemmed for ever with no hope? On the other hand perhaps he likes it in the Halls of Mandos.
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Eluchil
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Do you realise you're talking about divorce in the world created by such a kind of Catholic as Tolkien ?
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Well, I'm glad that I made you laugh [] Yes, I don't think that I had considered that point. However in a society which had no religion, church, priests could marriage could really be considered as Tolkien as invisgested it. I mean who could have blessed them in the first place? and I don't think that any mortal, in particullar one living in real history had a problem quite like Finwe's
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Eluchil
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Marriages were celebrated by the names of Eru, Varda and Manwë.

Elvish marriage was quite different than Mannish marriage :
quote:
The Eldar wedded once only in life, and for love or at the least by free will upon either part.

[...]

According to the laws of the Eldar this betrothal was bound then to stand for one year at least, and it often stood for longer. During this time it could be revoked by a public return of the rings, the rings then being molten and not again used for a betrothal. Such was the law; but the right of revoking was seldom used, for the Eldar do not err lightly in such choice.

Laws and Customs among the Eldar.



[ 11-26-2006, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Eluchil ]

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Prince Imrahil
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quote:
Eldar wedded once only in life
Of course Finwe is the exception. I think somewhere I may have read about how this was "allowed" (if so, I think it was in "Morgoth's Ring"), but I have no idea of the specifics. Perhaps someone more familiar with HoME than I could provide an answer.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses...tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

-Minas Tirith

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Alcuin
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Mandos permitted Finwë’s remarriage, but only because Míriel refused to leave the Halls of Mandos to return to be among the living. (Morgoth’s Ring, “The Later Quenta Silmarillion”, “Laws and Customs among the Eldar”, “Of the Severance of Marriage”, p 225) This is retold in a later version. (Op cit., pp 246-247) Later, when Míriel decided that she wished to return to the living, Finwë renounced his right to return to be among the living so that Míriel might be set free from Mandos. (“Of the Severance of Marriage”, pp 249-250; “Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor”, “Of Finwë and Míriel”, footnote 9, pp 263-265.)
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Eluchil
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More precisely, this is not Mandos who permitted it, but Manwë through Mandos (as Doomsman of the Valar).
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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And after a loooong committee meeting, isn't that so? []
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Eluchil
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Yeah ! Thanks Ilúvatar, the Valar don't have to eat or to drink []
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Prince Imrahil
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Yeah, I thought it had something to do with [] Miriel's [] situation. Thanks guys.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses...tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

-Minas Tirith

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Alcuin
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quote:
Yeah ! Thanks Ilúvatar, the Valar don't have to eat or to drink []
quote:
And after a loooong committee meeting, isn't that so? []

No, no: in committee meetings, it’s how long the participants can go between bathroom breaks.
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Be careful Dilbert doesn't sue you for using that.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Miriel must have been hell on Finwe's self-esteem. When he was alive she wished to be dead. When he died, she wished to return to life. Poor guy.
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Artaresto
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Good one []
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