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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Who handed the three rings to the Elves?
Author Topic: Who handed the three rings to the Elves?
Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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Was it Celebrimbor?
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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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He forged them in secret, so he propably also gave them to their owners. But did he wear himself any of them?
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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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Well this is what I was getting at - did he make them with the express intention of giving them all away? I find it hard to believe that he didn't keep one for himself to use.
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Dingalen
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As I understood it, he was the mastersmith in charge of the forging of the three rings in the giant effort to grant the elves (or rather the Noldor of Ost-in-edhil) power over the elements to prevent the world from fading (and the elves with it) - but that is puzzled together by myself from reading the Silm, Unfinished tales and the Appendix to LotR, so it is speculative. If there were any pre-ordained wielders for the three rings, it is left unsaid (as far as I would know). Anyhow, when Celebrimbor overheard Sauron/Annatar (as described in Unfinished Tales) putting on the master ring (and purportedly uttering the ring verse), Celebrimbor realized that the elves not only had been betrayed by Annatar - the rings, which they had created to preserve their world, woud now serve as a tool for the dark lord to dominate it!
So Celebrimbor did the wisest thing he could - except maybe (!) destroying the elven rings - he distributed them for safe keeping among powerful elven lords (Cirdan, Galadriel and Elrond) OUTSIDE Ost-in-Edhil. Because Celebrimbor apparently realized also, that that would be the first place the dark lord would come looking for the rings as soon as he realized that the elves refrained from using them (denying him the rings' power).
As Sauron did.
The three wielders (Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan) were thus most probably chosen for their wisdom not to try using their ring AND their power to defend themselves against the dark lord's attemps to obtain the rings from them (if the case should arise - after all their identities should be secret, except if Sauron would have succeeded in torturing that secret from Celebrimbor). Personally, it surprises me, that Elrond and not Gil-Galad received a ring.

[ 03-01-2002, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: Dingalen ]

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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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So the rings were only given to Elrond, Círdan, and Galdriel after he feared that they would be taken from him by force? That sounds probable but wern't these three going to receive the rings anyway?
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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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Elrond got his ring from Gil-galad.
Galdriel, Gil-galad and Cirdan were all leaders of their people. Maybe Celebrimbor made them as gifts to the last great Elven rulers.

"Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky"...

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Pippin Toker
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Hi

In sill. is says that Celebrimbor and his men made the 3, the seven and the 9. When Sauron made te one atd Celebrimbor discovered his treson, he hed all the rings. Sauron made war on him and turtured him into telling where the 7 and the nine were hidden. He couldn't get the location of he last 3 out of him.

Pippin

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Orome
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Is this a library quest?
Has this been answered more than once?

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Eol the Dark Elf
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I haven't seen this elsewhere, people asking who were the bearers of the rings certainly, but not if they were the originally intended bearers and if so, why.

Bu it's WGW's call in the end []

[ 03-30-2002, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Eöl the Dark Elf ]

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Maglor
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I just got my copy of UT from the library and was reading this very essay today for the first time. Great story!

Anyway Celebrimbor first gave Galadriel one elven ring when she was living in the woods beside the Misty Mountains. He then gave two to Gil-Galad, who kept those two until later on he gave the third one to Cridan.

I think it would make sense that he made three originally for the three elven kings, queens. Galadriel, Gil-Galad and Cirdan. Although I can't be sure about Cirdan, he may have made the third for himself.

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Pippin Toker
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Hi

I dont think they made yan Rings for a sertain person. Lotr says the rings were experiments, så they made them just to make them. The 7 and the 9 were not made for any race or person, then why would the 3 be?

Pippin

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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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The 7 and 9 were made by Sauron with the intention of giving them to the dwarves and the men. He may or may not have had certain people in mind, but in any case, the Elven Rings differed from the other rings in many ways, so they don't really relate.

I knew that Gil-Galad gave Vilya to Elrond, but I didn't know that Gil-Galad gave Narya to Cirdan (Who later gave it to Gandalf)

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Pippin Toker
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Hi Gandalf

Havent you read the book? it says many places that the elves made many rings of power, but Sauron only made one. When Sauron pun on The One, the Elves discovered his intentions. They took of their rings and Sauron made war upon them. He captured Celebrimbor and made him reviel where the lesser rings were. These he distrubeted to men and dwarves. What you proberly misunderstod, is that Sauron helped the elves make thouse rings, but he didn't make them.

Pippin

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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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quote:
Havent you read the book?
[]
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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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GtW seems to walk right into these!

----------

quote:
I dont think they made yan Rings for a sertain person. Lotr says the rings were experiments, så they made them just to make them. The 7 and the 9 were not made for any race or person, then why would the 3 be?

The initial rings were experiments. The three represented the height of the skills of the smiths of Eregion. They were forged by Celebrimbor with the very specific purpose of preserving and beautifying the world(consisting of the three elements). The power of the Eldar lay within the Three. It would be reasonable to assume that he expected these three to be kept by Elves worthy of such responsibilities. Gilgalad and Galadriel were natural choices.

[ 04-02-2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Lugbúrz ]

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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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quote:
with the very specific purpose of preserving and beautifying the three elements of Arda: Water, Air and Fire.
Oh? though Tolkien does say tha tthe primary power of the rings was preservation from decay I don't remeber any such referecne and don't see how it can be drawn.

[ 04-02-2002, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

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The Laurenendôrian
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Don't tell him there's a book!

---

Pippin Toker, I believe that it says that Sauron 'had no hand' in the making of the three, and thus by inference he did have a hand in the making of the Seven and the Nine. Can we say how great this hand was?

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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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Well, I'm first going to get these quotes out of the way, since it's nice to just refer to them rather than go back everytime to read them

quote:
Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world. But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise, who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring. Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.
quote:
`The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.'
quote:
Take this ring, Master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you.'
We were having this discussion about Gandalf's ring. When I say elements of Arda, I did not mean them literally. The elements are all around us and even in our characteristics. The word rekindle, suggests that the Ring of Fire had a special ability to do that, and it seems to fit best with the element of fire. I have merely put two and two together.

Maybe I need to edit it...

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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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Here is a useful quote from UT:

quote:

Sauron himself departed from Eregion about the year 1500, after the Mírdain had begun the making of the Rings of Power. Now Celebrimbor was not corrupted in heart or faith, but had accepted Sauron as what he posed to be; and when at length he discovered the existence of the One Ring he revolted against Sauron, and went to Lórinand to take counsel once more with Galadriel. They should have destroyed all the Rings of Power at this time, "but they failed to find the strength." Galadriel counselled him that the Three Rings of the Elves should be hidden, never used, and dispersed, far from Eregion where Sauron believed them to be. It was at that time that she received Nenya, the White Ring, from Celebrimbor, and by its power the realm of Lórinand was strengthened and made beautiful; but its power upon her was great also and unforseen, for it increased her latent desire for the Sea and for return into the West, so that her joy in Middle-earth was diminished. 9 Celebrimbor followed her counsel that the Ring of Air and the Ring of Fire should be sent out of Eregion; and he entrusted them to Gil-galad in Lindon. (It is said here that at this time Gil?galad gave Narya, the Red Ring, to Círdan Lord of the Havens, but later in the narrative there is a marginal note that he kept it himself until he set out for the War of the Last Alliance.)


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Roll of Honor Lugbúrz
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quote:

Celebrimbor, desperate, himself withstood Sauron on the steps of the great door of the Mírdain; but he was grappled and taken captive, and the House was ransacked. There Sauron took the Nine Rings and other lesser works of the Mírdain; but the Seven and the Three he could not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the Seven were bestowed. This Celebrimbor revealed, because neither the Seven nor the Nine did he value as he valued the Three; the Seven and the Nine were made with Sauron's aid, whereas the Three were made by Celebrimbor alone, with a different power and purpose.


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Galin
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quote:
Here is a useful quote from UT:

(...) when at length he discovered the existence of the One Ring he revolted against Sauron, and went to Lórinand to take counsel once more with Galadriel.

This is from Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn, a text from the late 1950s in which Galadriel with Celeborn actually founds Eregion, and goes to Lórinand after power is wrested from her -- then Celebrimbor goes to Galadriel in Lórinand (in this text Amroth is Galadriel's son as well).

But I do not believe Tolkien held to this storyline. Briefly stated, according to later notes there are two conflicting notions concerning Galadriel: (A) after the fall of Eregion either she went with Celeborn to Lórien, or (B) she went to Lindon at some point, where Celeborn joined her later (after he left Lórien).

The implication (IMO) from A is that Galadriel and Celeborn appear to go to Lórien _after_ the destruction of Eregion, or at least I get the impression that maybe she is present in Eregion but retreating with the advance of Sauron's host. Was she still ousted from power as in the older text? For myself I don't think so, but in any case Tolkien would ultimately (and simply) publish (for the second edition in the 1960s) that Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion, with no indication that Galadriel had even been its ruler with Celeborn, or founded the realm.

In B, where Celeborn goes to Lórien and later joins Galadriel in Lindon however, it might be that she had left at some earlier point, in part in order to get the Three out of Eregion.

In the older Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn text, as already noted in the fuller quote above, Galadriel had counselled that the Three should be hidden, never used, 'and dispersed, far from Eregion', and so if this idea were to hold, maybe she left Eregion for Lindon with her ring, along with the other two rings, before the invasion of Eriador made this journey more difficult.

Of course it would be nice to know what note is later -- with respect to 'A & B', but maybe that is not possible to know.

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