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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Was Arwen a reincarnation of Tinuviel?
Author Topic: Was Arwen a reincarnation of Tinuviel?
Aerin
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I've heard this question asked many times, but no one seems to have a real answer for it. Could Arwen have been a reincarnation of Tinuviel, or perhaps of Luthien?

They're somewhat similar, and their lives run in the same direction.


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Roll of Honor Boromir's Woman
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Luthien chose a mortal life and the fate of men after death was not known to any save Iluvatar. I would think that would mean no mortal could be reincarnated.

Elves might could have been reincarnated. Tolkien decided later that Glorfindel was sent back after his death in Gondolin. But whether being "sent back" after death is the same as reincarnation, I don't know.


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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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They were reincarnated in the sense that they were eventually given back their hroa (bodies), with a few exceptions, but the idea that they were born into their own children is and was an archaic one which was totally rejected in TOlkiens latter work on the legendarium.

no, she isn't


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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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besides she was no longer immortal or "longeval" as she suffered the fate of man and as according to TOlkien that was the essential difference( the fate of the fea[soul]) between the quendi and edain she in essence became human
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Roll of Honor Thorondor
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Arwen was, however, a decendent of Luthien, thus gaining her famed resemblance "the old-fashioned way".

Another way to express what Fingolfin has said is that Elves are not re-incarnated as a new person. An elf returns from Mandos as the same person he or she was prior to death. Luthien cannot be re-incarnated (at least in the elfin sense, who knows what happens to the souls of mortals), but if she could, she would return as Luthien.


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Beleg Arcofirme
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Supposedly the elves could "to return of the death", but the destination that they had was very different to the men´s destiny.
The truth I don´t think that if an immortal opted for the destination of the men (or something similar), could have something of the elves destiny.

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tace
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I'm not sure how Tolkien viewed reincarnation, but in the spiritual world there is a belief that might be relevant. If you are mortal, you are born, you live, you die and you reincarnate. If your immortal you live all your lives at once, and when you die, that's it, you've had it and your no more.

and now my take taking the above into consideration...

Because Luthien chose a mortal life, half way into her immortal life, she was entitled to a few more reincarnations to make up for it. But unless Arwen was destined to also become a mortal reguardless of how she felt about it (as she really only had half an immortal life to make up for what Luthien missed), she would have been born mortal (the reincarnaton, not Arwen herself).

The mind boggles.


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Roll of Honor Herendil
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Tolkien: Was Arwen a Reincarnation of Luthien

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Isildur of the Númenóreans ]


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Miriel Alagernilwen
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maybe not reincarnation but jes so happened to share the same fate? i.e falling for a mortal n chose to lead a mortal life?
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Mirkgirl
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I think the whole idea of reincornations originated from her beauty and the wish of the elves to have the most beautiful back. Her fate just deepened this idea, but no she wasn't.

[ 02-05-2002, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Mirkgirl ]

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Master of Doom
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quote:
Could Arwen have been a reincarnation of Tinuviel, or perhaps of Luthien?
Just wanted to say they're the same person.
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Gollum the great
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One thing I want to know is, did Arwen and Luthien share a resemblance, or did they actually look identical?
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Halion
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From Letter #144 (25 April 1954):
quote:
Both Elrond (and his daughter Arwen Undómiel, who resembles Lúthien closely in looks and fate) are descendants of Beren and Lúthien; and so at very many more removes is Aragorn.
From Letter #153 (September 1954):
quote:
Arwen is not a 're-incarnation' of Lúthien (that in the view of this mythical history would be impossible, since Lúthien has died like a mortal and left the world of time) but a descendant very like her in looks, character, and fate.


[ 02-16-2003, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Maerbenn ]

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The Legendarium Project

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Master of Doom
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Just thought this might interest you, on Tolkien abd his wife's tomb stone, Beren is carved under the good professor's name, and Luthien is carved under his wife's name.
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Snöwdog
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... a very close gene-pattern I'd say.
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Did anyone see both of them?
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Snöwdog
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I have.... at the same time.
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faithfull
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quote:
I have.... at the same time.
*Faithfull wonders if the nutmeg has gotten to Snowy, or maybe shrooms . . . [] *
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
Did anyone see both of them?
Wouldn't Galadriel have seen Luthien in Doriath?
And she was Arwen's grandmother, so I think she would have seen both them.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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Yes, of course, thank you. Might Celeborn have done as well?
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