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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » How did Galadriel know to look for Gandalf?
Author Topic: How did Galadriel know to look for Gandalf?
Roll of Honor Boromir's Woman
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I have often wondered how Galadriel knew to send Gwaihir to search for Gandalf after the fellowship had told her he had fallen in Moria. Did she know he would be sent back to complete his mission even if his body died? How would the eagle find him if he was underground? She assumed he would make it into the open?

Gandalf states after regrouping with Aragorn, etc. in TTT that he was brought to Galadriel by Gwaihir just after the Fellowship left Lorien. Why would Galadriel start the search without mentioning it to the group?

I wonder if Gandalf's death was necessary for him to return more powerful than before or whether that power was always in him and could have been revealed anytime without him having to die and be sent back. Did the Valar send him back with a better body?

Was Gandalf bound to ME by his oath to fight Sauron and so would just be reborn each time his body died? Would Galadriel know this?

[ 02-13-2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Boromir's Woman ]

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Star
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I think that Galadriel suspected that he might not be dead, and who wouldn't search for Gandalf if they had the means even if the hope was slim? You could also argue that Gandalf, not being a person in the strictest sense, but a god-like being, could not be killed in a permanent fashion and that only his earthly disguise could be destroyed. She knew better than just about anyone what he really was. I think she didn't mention it because if the Fellowship knew they might decide to stay put and wait for Gandalf rather than continue the quest on their own. Inaction could have been disastrous.
I think it has also been mentioned before that a self-sacrificing death is rewarded, specifically in Glorfindel's case.

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This is the end my friend,
My only friend the end...

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Hidalgo
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What about the mirror? Maybe she saw Gandalf alive there, and she decided there was a chance for his being saved.

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Maglor
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Gandalf possesed one of the elven rings, the fire one. Galadriel had one aswell so maybe Galadriel knew the fire ring was about and inturn knew that Gandalf was around somewhere. Obviously Gwaihir was the best finder someone could have so that's why she sent him.

Also Gandalf wasn't that far away from Lorien so maybe he had sent a message to Galadriel saying to find him and Galdriel had replied. This would explain Gandalf's none shock at Gwaihir finding him which would have been a very low chance of happining and so should have suprised Gandalf.


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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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Boromir's Woman - I doubt Galadriel sent Gwaihir to look for Gandalf after the fellowship passed through Lothlórien, but rather before they arrived. The reason I think this is that when Gwaihir brought Gandlaf to Lothlórien, the fellowship had only just left:

quote:
'Thus it was that I came to Caras Galadhon and found you but lately gone.'

The timing in Lothlórien is a little difficult to rely upon since it is a 'timeless place' and although The Fellowship stayed there a few days, a whole month passed in the outside world. I'm not sure how this works or whether it can be quantified but I'm assuming that they were there for a whole month and that it just 'felt' like three days.

Since Gwaihir did not know where to look for Gandalf I think it would take a long time to search for him in the whole of Middle Earth since most of that time Gandalf was underground with the Balrog.

Gandalf was not underground when Gwaihir found him however:

quote:
'There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. The sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. There was none to see, or perhaps in after ages songs would be sung of the Battle of the Peak.'

Since Gandalf and the Balrog made such a tumult on the top of Celebdil:

quote:
'A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin'

I'm sure that this affray is what drew Gwaihir (after what must have been an exhaustive search of ME) to Gandalf and where he lay.

When Gandalf returned to life, he returned in the same body but now as the leader of his order. As spirits, the Istari were very powerful but their task was not to fight Sauron directly but to encourage his enemies. This is why the Istari were sent in old bodies: so that they could not use the full extent of their power on the physical plain. The power they did posses as old men were granted in order for them to complete their task. At his demise from the fight with the Balrog, Gandalf was the only Istari to be on the correct path for which he was sent to ME in the first place. Saruman (who was originally sent as the head - and therefore most powerful - of the Istari) was the biggest offender, and had srayed from the same path for too long (although this was not entirely his fault). It was because of these factors that Gandalf was sent back by the Valar as the new head of the order and the most powerful.

Gandalf was bound to ME by this task, not to fight Sauron, but to encourage his enimies. The idea was to help the free peoples of Middle Earth to help themselves, so that the Valar did not have to keep interfering whenever a Dark Lord arose.

Galadriel would have known of this task since she was around at the arrival of the Istari.

<FONT SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: TheGentleman ]
</FONT>

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: TheGentleman ]


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Maglor
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The Fellowship came to Lorien on January 17 and left at February 16.

Gandalf cast the Barlog down and died on January 25. He comes back to life on February 14. He arrived at Lorien on February 17. This means he spent three days lying there and also means that Gwahir could have been searching for three days.

A very intresting thing is that the same day Gandalf comes to life again Frodo looks into the Mirror of Galadriel. Frodo while looking in the mirror at first thinks he saw Gandalf then thinks he saw Saruman because he thought Gandalf was dead. It also sort of tlaks about where Gandal comes back to life.

"At once the mirror cleared and he saw a twilt land. Mountains loomed dark in the distance against a pale sky. A long grey road wound back out of sight. Far away a figure came slowly down the road, faint and small at first, but growing larger and clearer as it approached. Suddenly Fdodo realised that it reminded him of Gandalf. He almost called out the Wizards name, and then saw that the figure was clothed not in grey but in white, in a white that shone faintly in the dusk; and in it's hand there was a white staff. The head was so bowed that he could not see the face, and presently the figure turned aside round a bend in the road and went out of the mirror's view. Doubt came into Frodo's mind: was this a vision of Gandalf on one of his many lonley journeys long ago, or was it Saruman?"

Now Gandalf came back to life on this very day and Frodo sees him in the mirror. I think he saw Gandalf because Gandalf would have been in all white after he came back to life and Frodo saw him in white. Also the staff was white and Sauruman didn't have a white staff, so it must have been Gandalf coming back to life.

Right now this was Galadriel's mirror and she obviously saw what Frodo saw. She would have known it was Gandalf and immediatly after the Mirror scene sent for Gwaihir to look for Gandalf. There is how Galadriel knew of Gandalf's revivel. Now this would give Gwaihir two or three days to look for Gandalf and he found him through the destuction of the Mountain which would of caught he's attention. He found him and brought him to Lorien.

Game, Set, Match Maglor.


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Roll of Honor Boromir's Woman
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I hadn't thought of the mirror cluing Galadriel in. that makes alot of sense.

But do you think that Gandalf was bound to ME for as long as Sauron was residing there? No matter how many times his physical body would die, Gandalf would always be sent back by the Valar? Or perhaps Gandalf would have always wanted to go back and so personally bound himself to ME.


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Maglor
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No he wasn't bound to ME. Normally if he died he would have been left alone but Eru intervened and brought Gandalf back, not the Valar. If he were to again die then most proberly he wouldn't have been brought back. Very seldom does Eru come into to play twice in a short period of time.
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Estel
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Maglor,
Gandalf said in TT, The White Rider
quote:
Naked I was sent back- for a breif time. Untill my task is done. And naked I lay upon the mountain-top.
skip 4 paragraghs down
quote:
Thus it was that I came to Caras Galadon and found you but lately gone. I tarried there in ageless time of that land where days bring healing not decay. Healing I found and I was clothed in white.

That says that Frodo could not have seen Gandalf in the present time. He might have seen Galndalf in the future or even on one of his previous journies.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Estel ]


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Tuor
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Perhaps Galadriel was given a vision. She saw that Gandalf was going to need transportation.
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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quote:
No he wasn't bound to ME.

Actually all of the ainu who entered ea were "bound" to arda such that even if they were diminished to the point of impotency they would still remain.

But that would be all they would simply "exist."


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Maglor
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Estel the term naked can be meant in lots of ways not just the literal one. Who's to say Gandalf wasn't in some form of white clothing before he went to Galadriel. Also how could it be a past mission if he was in white.

Fingolfin he was bound to Arda not ME only. That was Boromir's Woman statement that he was bound to ME.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Maglor ]


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Bungo
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Very nicely done, Maglor! What a fantastic discovery, about the mirror and corresponding days. Very cool indeed!

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Roll of Honor Herendil
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I have a new question: How did Galadriel contact Gwaihir?

[ 02-13-2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Isildur of Númenórë ]

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Estel
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True Fingy but that also says that they clothed him in white. So Frodo still could not have seen him on the mountain. But did Frodo see Gandalf in one of his trails that he travled when he passed out of thought and knowlage.
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Celeborn of Lothlórien
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Thats true Estel! ...hey bud(estel)welcome back! sorta! maybe?

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~The White Tree of Tol Eressëa
----------------------
A! Elbereth Gilthoniel!
Silivren penna míriel
O menel aglar elenath,
Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees
The starlight on the Western Seas.

~Elves- Grey Havens

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Roll of Honor Nenya
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I think that Maglor is right when he says that Galadriel knew that Gandalf wasn't dead because they both were wielder of elven rings. But I think the reason she new where he was, was because of the tumult in the Dimrill Dale
quote:
'I have returned from the Northern Fences,' said the Elf [Haldir], `and I am sent now to be your guide again. The Dimrill Dale is full of vapour and clouds of smoke, and the mountains are troubled. There are noises in the deeps of the earth. If any of you had thought of returning northwards to your homes,you would not have been able to pass that way. But come! Your path now goes south.'

I mean, Galadriel knew where Gandalf fell, and she probably knew more about both Gandalf and balrogs than most others, and may have guessed what caused the tumult.

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Maglor
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Just going on theroies here so don't kill me too quickly.

Estel just because Galadriel clothed him in white after doesn't mean that Gandalf couldn't have appeared in white in the mirror image. I mean it says that the white shone faintly like it alomost was like the light was supernatural. Who's to say this wasn't what Gandalf just beading white light from him.

Nenya thanks for the back up but i sort of dropped that theroy because there's no proof showing that the elven rings showed each other if the one of the bearers was dead or alive.

Thanks Bungo it's just something that came to my head.


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Aiwrendel
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Galadriel said of her Mirror to Frodo,

'Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,' she answered, 'and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden... ...it shows things that were, and things that are, things that yet may be. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell.'

And to Sam, she said,

'Remember that the Mirror shows many things, and not all have yet come to pass. Some never come to be... The Mirror is dangerous as a guide of deeds.'

I think Galadriel could use the mirror to see Gandalf's location and tell if he was dead (or helpless?). She might have then bent her thought on Gwaithir to search for him on the eyrie outside Durin's Tower. But she may not have known that what she saw in the Mirror was true.

I think when Frodo saw the white wizard it was Gandalf in the future. Saruman didn't travel much so a wandering wizard dressed in white must have been Gandalf. Sam saw trees falling in the Shire and Bagshot Row dug up long before it happened, so why not Frodo seeing Gandalf in the future as Gandalf the White?

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Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo


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Maglor
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Nice Airwendel.

Look i think the fact that Galadriel was searching for Gandalf through the mirror is a bit far fetched. I mean Galadriel even being as wise as she was would not have suspected Eru would have brought Gandalf back from the dead. I personally think the mirror showed the vision by itself for Frodo and Galadriel saw it.

I also doubt that the mirror could be used like a Palatir to contact people. It was a jusat a thing that showed visions. Galadriel contacting Gwahir would proberly been because of Gwaihir. Remember Radagast had put all animals of his friendship to the good of the wise. Gwaihir would have seen the chaos on top of the mountain and proberly have reported it to the nearest wise person which was Galdriel.

Why not it being Gandalf in the present, it's just as likely as it being in the future.


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Thalion
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I would think that Galadreil would have thought that Gandalf, knowing the mines, would have defeated the balrog, or knowing he would be defeated, fled up to the outside. Galadreil would have wanted to get Gandalf out of there as quick as possible because of the Orcs starting attacks. They would both be looking out for the ring Gandalf carried, so I would think Galadriel would have wanted Gandalf even if he was dead. So she sent Gwahir to either get gandalf or the ring, just a thoery.

[ 01-31-2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Thalion ]

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the lost king
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I hope no one takes offense to this because I'm serious. She used the force.
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Broono
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is the force not star wars
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Sinsemilla
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It was said that Galadriel was one of the most powerful and farsighted or all the Eldar in the Unfinished Tales. Aside from that as we learned in the reading the Ring Bearer's could speak to each other using only their minds rather than their bodies and it's possible that is how Galadriel knew where to look for him because of her connection to him through her ring. As for the answer to your other question about the need for Gandalf to die to have his new powers I beleive the answer is yes. The Istari(Wizards) were came to Middle-Earth in the form of men and originally Sauruman was the head of their order being the White Wizard. I perceive something having to do eith their strength was imbedded in their bodies. Gandalf however was a maiar and since he was the only one faithful to his original cause I assume that by the power of the Valar he was brought back as the most powerful and renewed in a new body.
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Snöwdog
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quote:
It was said that Galadriel was one of the most powerful and farsighted or all the Eldar in the Unfinished Tales. Aside from that as we learned in the reading the Ring Bearer's could speak to each other using only their minds rather than their bodies and it's possible that is how Galadriel knew where to look for him because of her connection to him through her ring.
So Nenya, Vilya, and Narya allowed their wearers to communicate via the mind (ESP)? Or only in the case of those who had wisdom and were farseeing to begin with. Galadriel I could understand this, and likely "had a hunch" Gandalf was among the living again, hence Gwaihir searching him out. Galadriel likely didn't say anything to the fellowship because either she was not sure of the fact, or the news would have had such an effect on the Fellowship to have them delay. Interesting this.
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