iv just been wondering? so was he a Christian? i re-sorse i found said he was but it might be prove wrong but here it is
quote: Was Tolkien a Christian?
The answer is an obvious and unequivocal YES, he was. Yet as with most dealings with Tolkien there are many levels at work here. Some can be seen directly from his Letters. Some are detailed in his authorized biography by H. Carpenter. Others I have gleaned from a critical work called "Splintered Light" by V. Flieger, which in my opinion is THE best examination of how Tolkien's religious beliefs influenced the genesis (ha, no pun intended) of his myths.
This article does not attempt to detail how these beliefs manifested themselves in his work, rather it is more of a catalog of Letters and cited references from his biography and critical works which demonstrate that Tolkien was a very religious person, a devout Christian, and that this played a major role in the synthesis of his writings.
To begin with, his biography states that at the time of his birth in South Africa, his mother and father both were of the Anglican Church of England. Due to concerns for JRRT's health, mother and children traveled back to Birmingham England. His father remained in South Africa to tend to his business. Soon after, his father caught rhuematic fever and died: "Christianity had played an increasingly important part in Mabel Tolkien's life since her husband's death, and each Sunday she had taken the boys on a long walk to a `high' Anglican church. Then one Sunday Ronald (JRRT) and Hilary (his brother) found that they were going by strange roads to a different place of worship: St Anne's, Alcester Street, in the slums near the centre of Birmingham. It was a Roman Catholic church. Mabel had been thinking for some time about becoming a Catholic....Immediately the wrath of her family fell upon them...That his daughter should turn papist was to him an outrage beyond belief...The strain that this induced, coupled with the additional hardship, did no good to her health; but nothing would shake her loyalty to her new faith, and agains all opposition she bean to instruct Ronald ahd Hilary in the Catholic religion." [Tolkien Biography pgs 24-25]
Here we glimpse a situation where his mother's choice of religious belief (changing from Anglican to Catholicism), which provided her much needed spiritual support was actually detrimental to her physical well being because of the stress put on her from her non-Catholic family. Her condition worsened with time and the outcome not unforeseen: "Unnoticed by her sons, Mabel's condition began to deteriorate again. At the beginning of November she collapsed in a way that seemed to them sudden and terrifying. She sank into a diabetic coma, and six days later, on 14 November, with Father Francis and her sister May Incledon at her bedside in the cottage, she died." [Tolkien Biography pg 30]
What follows is a lengthy excerpt from the critical analysis by V. Flieger called "Splintered Light" which most astutely states that Tolkien's religion was on one hand a solace for his loss, but was also somewhat responsible for his mother's death - and so created a paradox in Tolkien's character that manifested itself in his writings: "Mabel Tolkien's conversion to Catholicism when Tolkien was eight years old permanently estranged her from her relatives. Her determination to bring up her children - Tolkien and his younger brother Hilary - in the Catholic faith cut her off from the emotional and financial support of her family. Tolkien came to feel that his mother's heroic efforts to raise and educate her sons alone had drained her strength, and were the direct cause of her death. When she died he was bereft. `The loss of his mother,' says Carpenter, `had a profound effect on his personality. It made him into a pessimist. Or rather, it made him into two people.' Carpenter goes on to characterize Tolkien's two sides: `He was by nature a cheerful almost irrepressible person with a great zest for life...But from now onwards there was to be a second side, more private but predominant in his diaries and letters. This side of him was capable of bouts of profound despair. More precisely, and more closely related to his mother's death, when he was in this mood he had a deep sense of impending loss. Nothing was safe. Nothing would last. No battle would be won forever. (TAB p. 31)'
His solace was his religion. But these feelings colored his religious outlook and gave it the same mixture of light and dark.
`My own dear mother was a martyr indeed, and it is not to everybody that God grants so easy a way to his great gifts as he did to Hilary and myself, giving us a mother who killed herself with labour and trouble to ensure us keeping the faith.' Tolkien's description of his mother's sacrifice as an "easy" way to God is hard to fathom, for it is clear that the shock of his mother's death affected him deeply. An yet the statement is evidence of the close, emotional association which he always made between his mother and his faith. This is more than polarity; it is paradox. His Catholicism was inextricably linked with his mother, but her adherence to that religion had, in his view, led to her death and thus to his bereavement. The very thing which gave him his faith robbed him of his mother, and thus mixed with that faith a sense of irretrievable loss." [Splintered Light p.2-3]
How does this internal struggle and paradox make itself part of his writings? Well, I will make one more citation from Splintered Light which sums this up best: "This alternation between the vision of hope and the knowledge of despair - between light and dark - is both the essence of Tolkien and the clearest characteristic of his work. The contrast and interplay of light and dark are essential elements of his fiction. The light/dark polarity operates on all levels - literal, metaphoric, symbolic. It engenders Creation and Fall; it becomes language; and its interplay becomes the interplay of good and evil, belief and doubt, free will and fate." [Splintered Light p. 4]
I hope that those of you who have laboured so far through this commentary will realize that Tolkien's religion played a most important part of his life and his works. But as you have seen, it was a most complicated situation - a source of joy and sadness at the same time.
Ok, enough of the commentary - what follows are specific excerpts direct from Tolkien's Letters where he explicity states his religious beliefs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Letter #131: ...Of course there was and is all the Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English; and does not replace what I felt to be missing. For one thing its `faerie' is too lavish, and fantastical, incoherent and repetitive. For another and more important thing: it is involved in, and explicitly contains the Christian religion. For reasons which I will not elaborate, that seems to me fatal. Myth and fairy-story must, as all art, reflect and contain in solution elements of moral and religious truth (or error), but not explicit, not in the known form of the primary `real' world. (I am speaking, of course. of our present situation, not of ancient pagan, pre-Christian days.)... In the cosmogony there is a fall: a fall of Angels we should say. Though quite different in form, of course, to that of Christian myth. These tales are `new', they are not directly derived from other myths and legends, but they must inevitably contain a large measure of ancient wide-spread motives or elements. After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of `truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear.
From Letter #142: The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like `religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.
From Letter #165: It is not `about' anything but itself. Certainly it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular, or topical, moral, religious, or political. The only criticism that annoyed me was on that it `contained no religion' (and `no Women', but that does not matter, and is not true anyway). It is a monotheistic world of `natural theology'. The odd fact that there are no churches, temples, or religious rits and ceremonies, is simply part of the historical climate depicted. It will be sufficiently explained, if (as now seems likely) the Silmarillion and other legends of the First and Second Ages are published. I am in any case myself a Christian; but the `Third Age' was not a Christian world.
From Letter #195: Actually I am a Christian, and indeed a Roman Catholic, so that I do not expect `history' to be anything but a `long defeat' - though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory.
From Letter #213: ...I object to the contemporary trend in criticism, with its excessive interest in the details of the lives of authors and artists. They only distract attention from an author's works (if the works are in fact worthy of attention). and end, as one now often sees, in becoming the main interest. But only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God Himself, could unravel the real relationship between personal facts and an author's works. Not the author himself (though he knows more than any investigator), and certainly not so-called `psychologists'. ...I was born in 1892 and lived for my early years in `the Shire' in a pre-mechanical age. Or more important, I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic. The latter `fact' perhpas cannot be deduced; thou one critic (by letter) asserted that the invocations of Elbereth, and the character of Galadriel as directly described (or through the words of Gimli and Sam) were clearly related to Catholic devotion to Mary. Another saw in waybread (lembas)=viaticum and the reference to its feeding the will (vol. III, p. 213) and being more potent when fasting, a derivation from the Eucharist. (That is: far greater things may colour the mind in dealing with the lesser things of a fair-story.)
From Letter #269: With regard to The Lord of the Rings, I cannot claim to be a sufficient theologian to say whether my notion of orcs is heretical or not. I don't fell under any obligation to make my story fit with formalized Christian theology, though I actually intended it to be consonant with Christian thought and belief, which is asserted elsewhere.
From Letter #310: ...So it may be said that the chief purpose of life, for any one of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis:...We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendour.
From Letter #320: ...I think it is true that I owe much of (the character of Galadriel) to Christian and Catholic teaching and imagination about Mary....
its quite long but it says a lot.
This message has been edited by White Dwarf on 06-10-2001 at
posted
I haven't read your whole post White Dwarf (tis already too late to be not in my nice, warm bed), but I can tell you, JRRT was a Christian. Raised in his youth as an Anglican, he later joined the Roman Catholic Church.
From: Rivendell | Registered: Mar 2001
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Yes, that is about what the quote says in a more detailed and elaborate fashion, Earendilyon. The most striking statement is:
quote: I object to the contemporary trend in criticism, with its excessive interest in the details of the lives of authors and artists. They only distract attention from an author's works and end, as one now often sees, in becoming the main interest.
Good point, Professor!
This message has been edited by Dingalen on 06-11-2001 at
From: Somewhere in the Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2001
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Tolkien was most definitely a Catholic. After his father died, his mother converted to Catholicism. After her death, Tolkien and his brother were left in the care of a Catholic priest, and Tolkien stayed with the Catholic faith.
------------------ A room without books is like a house without windows
From: TX, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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I always thouht he was Anglican, but that is Christianity anyway, so....
From: Atlanta, GA / South Kent, CT | Registered: Apr 2001
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umm... Catholic doesn't by default mean christian ... just as Being American doesn't by default mean that you are a patriot or loyal to the cause or indeed believe in the american dream
There are many who go to churches, indeed some lead churches ... who are less Christians that the Athiest O'hare lady.
From: Miami | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: umm... Catholic doesn't by default mean christian ...
Now that's just rude and insulting to the Catholic faith.
While I understand that there are branches of the Christian Faith that don't agree with the way Catholic's worship and some of the things they believe, to say they aren't Christian is very narrow minded in the definition of Christian.
If we define Christian as those that believe in Christ as the son of God, who died for man's sins, then Catholics most certainly are Christians.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- Marcho Blackwood, MSS - #16 Brookshade Close - Bindbale, North Farthing, The Shire 1st Winner Mahanaxar's Boy Howdy of Approval with 2 Bronze Stars (3rd Award) & Balrog Cluster with Laurel. King of Grammar with Queen SSA Sass this hoopy hobbit frood who really knows where his towel is!
From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001
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But maybe the point is that some people who describe themselves as "Catholic" (or "Christian") don't actually believe that Christ was the Son of God-- or that He died for the sins of the world, etc.
When asking whether someone is "Christian" (or "Catholic"), you have to keep in mind that you are really asking three separate questions:
1. Does that person satisfy the formal requirement for membership in the Christian (and/or Catholic) church?
2. Does that person consider him- or herself to be Christian (and/or Catholic)?
3. Does the substance of the person's beliefs qualify as Christian (and/or Catholic)?
First let's examine what each of these tests means in the context of whether a person is Christian.
1. If you're Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican, you would probably say that baptism is the formal requirement for being a Christian. Many mainline Protestants would also hold to this view. Most of these people would also probably say that a person who specifically renounces and disavows his or her baptism is no longer Christian. On the other hand, Evangelical protestants (and some mainliners) would say that there is no formal requirement for being a Christian-- all that's required is faith in Christ.
2. We should note that just because somebody might qualify as a Christian under 1 and 3 doesn't mean that that person will think of or describe him- or herself as a Christian. The reverse is also true-- some people who describe themselves as Christian would not be Christian under 1 or 3.
3. Whether or not the substance of a person's faith qualifies as Christian is the most controversial aspect of the question. Catholics (and I think the Orthodox and Anglicans, as well as many mainline protestants) would say that to be "Christian," one's faith must at a minimum include belief in the Trinity. Evangelicals (and some mainline protestants), by contrast, might say that no faith is Christian unless it includes a belief in the infallibility of the Bible, that the Bible is the only legitimate source for Christian belief, and that salvation is by faith alone (not by works). Note that under any of these definitions one's faith might be described as "Christian" while still containing elements that many people might consider to be "un-Christian."
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Now let's ask what it means to be Catholic under these three tests.
1. Formal requirements for membership in the Catholic Church are simple: a person must have been baptized as a Catholic (or, if batpized in another faith, have formally accepted that Catholic faith) and not have made any formal renunciation of the Catholic faith (such as deciding "not to be Catholic anymore" and then joining a different religion). To be a "Catholic in good standing" there are a few more requirements: one must go to Mass each Sunday (unless you have a serious excuse), receive the sacraments of confession and Eucharist at least once a year, observe the days of fasting (no meat on Lenten Fridays), and give money to the Church according to one's means.
2. Of course anyone who wants to can describe themselves as "Catholic."
3. Some people would say that there are no substantive requirements for a Catholic's faith-- that being Catholic is more about participating in the Catholic culture heritage than believing any specific thing. Others, and the Church itself, say that a substantively Catholic faith must include a belief in all the dogmas that the Church authoritatively teaches. This includes basic things like the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and the sacraments, as well as other things like the infallibility of the Pope (in certain circumstances), the Assumption of Mary into heaven, the benefits of praying to saints, the existence of Purgatory, and indulgences (although not the historical abuses of indulgences).
This thread has documented that Tolkien met test #2: he described himself as both Catholic and Christian. From reading his letters and other works I think we can presume that he met the "Catholic" versions of tests 1 and 3 as well. Of course this means that he would also pass the less-stringent "Christian" versions of 1 and 3. But it's also not tough to see that from a conservative Evangelical viewpoint, a person who passes "Catholic" test 3 can't possibly pass "Christian" test 3-- because such a person would believe in the authority of Catholic Tradition in addition to the Bible, and would believe that his works in this life could have an affect on whether he went to Heaven.
So, my (long-overdue) conclusion: from a Catholic, Eastern-Orthodox, Anglican, or moderate/liberal Protestant point of view, Tolkien was a Christian. This does not mean that he was a particularly good Christian from any one of those POVs; just that he made the cut.
From a conservative Protestant POV, Tolkien was not a Christian.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- ..The Lord is my Shepherd..... ...Our Father who art in Heaven.... ...Hail Mary full of grace..... ....Glory be to the Father...... ..I belive in God the Father al... ..Hail Holy Queen Mother of.......
From: Exploring Middle-Earth on my beloved horse Snowmane | Registered: Dec 2004
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I can't believe this is actually a topic of "discussion"... Thinly-veiled anti-Catholicism it seems to me.
From: Vinya-Tárilos | Registered: Aug 2004
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I would agree with that assessment, Silm. Unless someone is virulently anti-Catholic, I see no way anyone could possibly disagree that Tolkien was Christian.
From: The Green Dragon - forever and always | Registered: Oct 2005
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That's assuming that "not Christian = bad." Otherwise calling someone a non-Christian isn't anti-anything.
But additionally, there's no argument here about the substance of what Tolkien believed or how he described himself-- just how he should be labelled. As a Catholic myself, I don't see anything wrong with trying to decide what is the proper definition of "Christian," even if that means excluding some people (as it must if the term is to have any meaning).
From: Northfield, MN | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote: That's assuming that "not Christian = bad."
Not at all. I'm not Christian.
quote: Otherwise calling someone a non-Christian isn't anti-anything.
Even if that someon a professed Catholic? It implies that "Catholic" isn't "Christian". My point is, who has the right to determine that at all? Certainly not me.
quote: But additionally, there's no argument here about the substance of what Tolkien believed or how he described himself-- just how he should be labelled.
Isn't that one and the same. IOW, if someone doubts whether Tolkien should be "labelled" Christian (his Catholic adherence notwithstanding), it calls into question what he believed. He considered himself a Christian and a Catholic. That's good enough for me, and should be for anyone else. If not, then they can go to you-know-where...
From: Vinya-Tárilos | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: My point is, who has the right to determine that at all? Certainly not me.
So are you saying that it's bad for people to have debates about what it means to be Christian? Of course no person can determine it for good and all (well-- of course Christ could, but either he's not doing it or we're not listening to Him), but does that mean we have to just foreclose all debate on the matter and allow the meaning of the word to become fossilized into its early-21st-century meaning? We don't do this with many other words, do we?
Granted, when people use a word you have a right to expect to know what they're talking about. Language has to have some ridigity or it ceases to have a point. But when you're addressing a simple question like the one that titles this thread-- a question dealing with the relationship between a person and a belief system-- it behooves the conversation to be able to discuss what you mean both by the person and by the belief system.
quote: IOW, if someone doubts whether Tolkien should be "labelled" Christian (his Catholic adherence notwithstanding), it calls into question what he believed. He considered himself a Christian and a Catholic. That's good enough for me, and should be for anyone else. If
I guess I made my last post too long or confusing. If I consider myself an elf, or an orc, or Gandalf, is that "good enough for you"? No-- because those words have a meaning independently of how I think of myself. Same goes for being Christian or Catholic. After all, "I am a Christian" is a factual statement-- by its very nature it must be either true or false. And whether it's true or false depends on what 'being a Christian' actually means.
From: Northfield, MN | Registered: Dec 2003
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I think it means someone who subscribes primarily to the doctrine of Christ-- which is only the word and teachings of Christ, not that which was added by others. (Note that Christ also upheld the teachings of the Old Testament as well).
[ 11-16-2005, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Fair enough. I see your point. Still-- in order to answer "was Tolkien a Christian," you have to decide what a Christian is. So perhaps you're suggesting the question itself is inappropriate?
From: Northfield, MN | Registered: Dec 2003
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Yes, I think the question is inappropriate, particulary when the answer is self-evident, at least according to the man in question. A better topic would be something along the lines of, "What defines Tolkien's Christian (or Catholic) beliefs?"
From: Vinya-Tárilos | Registered: Aug 2004
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For the vast world-majority, a Christian is one who was born and RAISED a Christian-- as is the genesis of other religions as well, i.e. family tradition; there aren't many converts in the mainstream, between one religion and another. As to whether one is a "true" Christian, the issue is of some debate; the accusation of "hypocrisy," goes back from Christ himself before the start of the Middle Ages, to Martin Luther at the end of them, and certainly to many leaders today.
[ 11-17-2005, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: I think the question is inappropriate, particulary when the answer is self-evident, at least according to the man in question.
This makes it seem like you just want to respect people's own descriptions of themselves. If that's your conviction I certainly respect it. It just seems to me that if we can ask 1."What does it mean to be Christian?" and 2."What were Tolkien's beliefs?" then we're actually answering the question "Was Tolkien Christian?", so why not just come right out and say it?
From: Northfield, MN | Registered: Dec 2003
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I think this is evident from the subject of the non-judgmental perspective emphasized throughout LotR; particularly Gandalf's gentleness and non-judgment, which Frodo and Sam later learn, ala "be not too eager to hand out death in punishment, fearing for your own safety; for not even the wise can see all ends. This was likewise in accordance with the like doctrine of "love your enemies--" as Gandalf says of Sauron, "even I pity his slaves," and "for nothing is evil in the beginning." Likewise, Gandalf gives Saruman full pardon for his crimes, but also requires that he pay for such via surrendering his staff-- and when Saruman refuses to repent, he is "cast out with the publicans," becoming a lowly beggar in the wilderness.
LotR simply puts these into action even in a pre-medieval context, which likewise combines fantasy images for modern symbolisms of political mass-domination and technology.
In this context, the Ring represents the temptation to dominate and enslave, for "the greater good" in the short term which Boromir wishes to do, seeking the power of command not only for his own duty, but also for his own glorification (vanity)-- i.e. the moral that none can wield such power safely. This has proven time and time again as well, since military conscription makes the difference between a war and in instant stalemete (i.e. a chessboard with only two kings)-- and also the importance of not resisting evil, since this plays into the hands of evil. Similarly, the journey ends into a satanic mill-- part factory-gulag, part pits of Hell-- and here it is shown that no faith can suffice against evil, but for the grace of God.
So, as I've stated before, LotR is a morality-play after the fashion of a parable, where the acolyte (Frodo) learns by walking the path himself, while Gandalf (the cleric/spirit) only guides him.
[ 11-17-2005, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: It just seems to me that if we can ask 1."What does it mean to be Christian?" and 2."What were Tolkien's beliefs?" then we're actually answering the question "Was Tolkien Christian?", so why not just come right out and say it?
Because the first two questions certainly require more than a yes or no answer.
From: Vinya-Tárilos | Registered: Aug 2004
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